- - -
Recently, I was asked if this life ends,
and there is no immortality-granting
God, what does it matter, this life,
this supposed 'final' end?
I responded at length, in two posts, as
follows (updated a bit in this latest
version):
- - -
Cosmological Calendar
Just saw an episode of the series 'The
Universe', called "Cosmic Apocalypse".
Very interesting. They used a calendar
to discuss the events that have occurred
since our particular space-time contin-
uum began its expansion. Here's where
we stand when looked at from that
perspective:
A period of ~14 billion years com-
pressed into one calendar year in
the following:
January 1 -- expansion of our particu-
lar space-time continuum.
January 31 -- Milky Way galaxy formed.
August 1 -- Our solar system formed.
August 16 -- Life on earth began.
December 31 -- Humans arrived, very
late in the day (some perspective on that
is detailed below).
December 31, 11:59.999999... Now
The future?
January 31 -- Earth becomes inhospitable,
all life on earth ends -or- departs for loca-
tions elsewhere.
May 17 -- Sun death.
For up to 10,000 of these cosmic years (one
cosmic year = ~14 billion years) thereafter,
low mass stars continue.
The longest-lasting of those light-emitting
low mass stars, red dwarfs, will outlast all
of the more powerful stars, by far. At one
point, all of the light-emitting stars other
than red dwarfs will cease to be, and only
a few red dwarfs will remain. All life as
we know it would be required to move
near those stars to be able to sustain life.
- - -
Eventual Long-Lasting Naturalistic
End of All That We Know In This
Particular Space-Time Continuum
Then, what happens in this particular space-
time continuum?
The degenerate era ensues, and any remaining
life would have to extract energy from white
dwarf stars, none of which would be emitting
light. Over time, millions of black holes
would dominate the universe, and eventually,
all matter and energy would degenerate.
Time slows. Protons won't exist. Any living
entity would have to live at an incredibly
slow rate. A thought would take trillions
of years.
After all black holes have evaporated away,
everything in terms of matter & energy we
know of is gone, including atoms themselves.
Quantum physics dominates, explaining the
behavior of particles. With enough time,
any kind of quantum fluctuation can form,
even one that can seem impossible. One of
these random fluctuations can change the
fabric of space itself.
One part of space can witness the formation
of a bubble, and that bubble would spread
throughout the space around it. A phase
transition would occur. Some of these
quantum fluctuations can give rise to de-
tached portions of space, dimensions that
can branch off from ours to create a new
universe.
Perhaps a quantum fluctuation gave rise
to our own space-time continuum (see
January 1 on the calendar above).
- - -
Naturalistic Forever?
And so it goes, has gone, and will continue
to go, with or without 'us', forever, per-
haps forever in dimensions, in universes,
in time, in the past, in the future, in the
present.
- - -
We are Part of Everywhere
& Everywhen
And we, all of us, are part of this grand
and incomprehensible everywhere every-
when, and in that, I see a fantastic oppor-
tunity to explore, to learn more, to do
more, to be all that one can be, given
the limitations and restrictions we our
currently burdened my.
- - -
Life & Hardships
As for life & hardships, to the extent
humankind can defeat them, excellent.
To the extent that they overwhelm and
subdue us, not good, and therein resides
the quest to maximize the good, and to
overcome as many of the hardships as we
can.
- - -
What Makes Life Worth Living
As for life, and what makes it worth living,
in its better moments, common knowledge
is that sharing, caring, giving, loving, enter-
taining, learning, exploring, enjoying, with
a 'live and let live' attitude, all that and more
are there, and among those who view them-
selves as pro-humanists, there's additional
value in making the most for the many for
as long as is pleasantly possible.
- - -
Aside -- In response to another inquiry refer-
encing God as the only answer for immortal-
ity hopes, and without God what's the point
in living, 'cause it all is going to be a short-
term skit, anyway, I responded as follows:
- - -
Immortality?
Life and life's end doesn't matter if said
end does not result in meeting a super-
being (called God) that will supposedly
deal you your immortal fate in an 'after-
life' event?
Immortality is required for anything to
matter (when speaking of the future)?
So, let's say one is in 'heaven', and one
day, I dunno, some entity decides to
terminate that dude, you're saying that
dude's end means the, oh I dunno,
trillions of years the dude spent in
'heaven' before being offed didn't mat-
ter?
Then again, some of the religious cling
to the notion that most folks will suffer
forever, in 'hell', so once again, I must
ask the question, does that add value to
this life 'cause most, per some of the
religious, will be cursed with immortal
suffering?
- - -
Oblivion?
Another angle, from the religious who
believe an immortal oblivion is the
deal for most (for disbelievers and for
believers in 'wrong' religions), and
from the non-religious who think that
this life is our one and only chance at
it, does that actually and evidentially
diminish the value of this one and only
certain life, a life in which the threat
of immortal suffering is not believed
in?
In any case, oblivion sure beats im-
mortal suffering, that's for sure, un-
less one is into suffering, and then,
I suppose, hell (the immortal torment
type) might be considered heaven? (-:
When it comes to oblivion, I think
one would admit that as highly likely
as that may be, forever is a long time,
the actual nature of the expansion of
'our' space-time continuum, unknowns
remain, multiple dimensions and uni-
verses open up intrigueing possibili-
ties, and until we know all there is to
know, which basically would include
the totality of all that is, all that ever
was, all that ever will be, -or- at least
until we know far more than we know
now, I submit we'll fall short of hav-
ing absolute evidential confidence in
the immortality of oblivion.
At least that's true in my case.
- - -
Hope
As for a pleasant immortality, you
don't have to give up hope for that
just because you don't happen to fol-
low some ancient religion. Really,
you don't. You can, if you wish, give
up hope, but you don't have to unless
(see above) you're confident enough
to proclaim, as fact, that the discon-
tinuation of each of us encapsulates
the totality of possibilities apart from
religion.
I would submit that the value in this
life, for certain, comes from making
it last as long and pleasantly as pos-
sible in this natural realm we know
exists, and to the extent that anything
else happens after this life is over, one
cannot possibly know (yet) either how
long or how pleasant or how unplea-
sant that would be.
Certainly, ancient religions (which
have all the appearance of myth) offer
nothing but promises and seductions
and threats when it comes to immor-
tality.
One can hope for a pleasant immortal-
ity, though I would suggest that divorc-
ing such hope from magic beings -and-
ancient religions would be well-advised.
You might call that hope without the
limitations -and- the anti-humanism
-and- the threats of ancient religions,
that certainly seems to be something
anyone can hope for, if willing to put
aside the fact that there's no evidence
that such a fate exists for anyone.
As to what impact that would have on
this, our only sure chance to experience
life, when divorced from all the brain-
washing entailed in ancient religions
which call their hope/threats 'holy',
which try to convince young children
that afterlife places/consequences are
a reality, just have faith?
I would submit you don't need all that
to have hope, and would be better off
without all that, if hope is something
you desire, but that's just my opinion,
and many think calling something 'holy',
and believing in magic beings is both
*desired* and *required* to have any
'real' hope.
- - -
Hope (for immortality) Causality
I must admit, my hope is not based on
any immortality experience, or any evi-
dence, it's merely based on whatever it
is (probably, mostly in my genes) that
makes me want to exist forever.
It also might be the by-product of having
been raised in a religious environment in
which I was taught (for the first 18 years
of my life) that the particular religion I
was raised in represented ultimate real-
ity, a teaching which I oft-times strug-
gled with and later rejected (the parts
regarding supernatural activities, the
anti-human parts, the threats, the down-
sides, most of the historical claims).
However, the pleasant immortality
parts, even though I don't believe in
ancient religions, or Gods, or devils,
or spirits, or heaven, or hell, I still cling
to the hope that within the natural realm,
a pleasant continuance may be part of
the picture, however unlikely that may
be.
That may simply be more reflective of
my wishes and dreams and certainly,
I haven't found any scientific evidence
that such a continuation is possible,
but then again, I have yet to locate a
definitive evidential denial of such a
naturalistic possibility. If I do, I'll re-
port on it, and I must admit, I haven't
looked that hard to find it, yet, either
scientific evidence for or against such
a possibility.
That hope also might be the by-product
of the language and culture I am deeply
influenced by, the many myths and books
and life experiences that are part of the
'programming' that I've been impacted
by.
- - -
Totality of Reality
But back to speaking of whatever it is
that is the totality of reality, and what
may happen in the known realms we
exist in ...
Scientific advances offer enormous pos-
sibilities, not only regarding the human
condition on earth, but regarding what
may very well be our successors, a com-
bination of biology and technology far
surpassing present day human limitations.
- - -
Beyond Earth -- Continuation of
Human Life?
Beyond that, earth is merely home for,
cosmologically speaking, a snippet of
time, and moving beyond this particular
location, that would offer a much greater
opportunity for maximizing the chances
for continuing existence for human suc-
cessors mentioned above.
[all this assumes, of course, that we have
enough time to take advantage of scien-
tific advances, as the risks of extinction
in a natural environment, not to mention
the risks of extinction due to human acts,
may be prohibitively high]
Reflecting on the cosmological calendar
mentioned abov, the opportunity to ex-
tend life, for our successors, may exist
far beyond the end of earth, for at least
10,000 cosmological years (recall, a cos-
mological year = ~14 billion years) when
only low mass stars are considered, and
far beyond that -if- the ability to extract
energy from white dwarfs is taken into
account.
And, even -if- human successors chose
to confine themselves to our particular
solar system, for whatever reason (though
it's beyond me why they would choose to
do so), the sun will be around for quite
awhile after earth is gone (recall that on
the cosmological time scale, a day =
38,356,164 years), and not only do we
have 31 of those days left before earth
ends, but we have 105 days after that
before the sun ends, so ...
- - -
Shortness of Human Life Relative to
the Cosmological Calendar
.... since, on that cosmological time scale,
an hour = 1,598,173 years, a minute =
26,636 years, and a second = almost 444
years, you and I have been around for
about the last 1/10th of one second on
the cosmological time scale, give or take
a few hundredths of a second ...
.... that should help to put it all into per-
spective.
- - -
Human Beginnings
Going further back in time, the following
article suggests there was a period of time
between when human ancestors split from
the chimpanzee line, and when human an-
cestors stopped breeding with chimpanzees:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4991470.stm
Excerpts:
.... A detailed analysis of human and chimp
DNA suggests the lines finally diverged less
than 5.4 million years ago. The finding ... is
about 1-2 million years later than the fossils
have indicated. ... its results hint at the possi-
bility that interbreeding occurred between
the two lines for thousands, even millions,
of years.
- - - end excerpts - - -
On the cosmological time scale detailed
at the beginning of this post (one calendar
year = ~14 billion years), human ancestors
stopped breeding with chimpanzees slightly
after 8:37 PM on December 31, and most
humans were wiped out (within a short time
of the Mt. Toba super-eruption and the cold
weather that ensued nearly 71,000 years
ago) from 11:57:20 to 11:57:22.
- - -
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~~~
Pro-Humanist FREELOVER
http://fire.prohosting.com/prohuman
(Freethinking Realist Exploring
Expressive Liberty, Openness,
Verity, Enlightenment, & Rationality)
~~~
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