Re: DIVINE SCRIPTURE CLEARLY STATES GOD EXISTS--NO ROOM FOR DEBATE. (WAS: Re: Why is a man allowed to have ....

On 27 Apr 2008 04:52:29 GMT, nocTifer <yronwode.com@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

>panamfloyd@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>dh@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
>>>jesucris...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 (marques de sade) wrote:
>>>>dh@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
>>>>>jesucris...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 (marques de sade) wrote:
>
>>> >because it's like saying to someone that he/she must believe in
>>> >Goku by handing them a Dragonball Z DVD as proof...
>>>
>>> It's not like that in any way.
>>
>>To someone who does not believe in your mythology, it's *exactly* 
>>that way. 
>
>there are no repercussions of the reality of Goku.
>
>>Humans have created thousands of mythical creatures. 
>
>correct, some of these are integral to our lives and some are not.
>
>>Why would I give special consideration to yours? 
>
>because of the imperative and essential nature of that being,
>as described.
>
>>It's just somebody else's weird idea.
>
>no, it is someone's weird idea about the real world which is
>imperative if it is true and incidental if it is not. your
>example of Dragonball is incidental to everyone who does 
>not have a fascination for the topic/object.
>
>>> >>>so why do you act like you engage atheists in debate from a
>>> >>>scientific perspective when all is settled religiously for you...
>>>
>>> >> I consider it to be a scientific perspective to try to think
>>> >>realistically about how God could exist, etc.
>>>
>>> >you go through some motions that mimic rational approach but in
>>> >the end what may be deduced through logic will get discarded in
>>> >favor of Divine Revelation,
>>>
>>> That would depend on whether they conflict or not.
>>
>>Are you saying you would reject a rational conclusion 
>>because it conflicted with the teachings of your mythology? 
>
>no, dh is saying that rationalism only takes one so far 
>and the God in which he wants to believe (by endlessly 
>"considering" with atheists) might make the universe 
>appear to us in any way imaginable. 

    We all develop our own interpretation of it. 

>a bit of Evil Genius combined with Santa Claus.

    Whether or not God exists we are (hopefully) still in
the very early stages of human development, so we
will never be in a position to know if God does exist
in our lifetime, and quite possibly humans will never
be able to find out even if they exist for millions of years
into the future.

>>Doing so would be the very antithesis of the 
>>rational approach.
>
>dh isn't a rationalist. dh is a consideralist theist.

    How does considering all the possibilities prevent
one from being rational? 

>>> If God exists, considering that he'd be billions of years
>>> old I don't believe he would be restricted to any particular
>>> form or gender, but refer to him as "he" out of convenience
>>> and also the way I've always been led to believe he would
>>> rather be referred to.
>>
>>Or the way your parents taught you to refer to "him" 
>>when they indoctrinated you as a child...
>
>dh doesn't seem to consider indoctrination and its impact
>as anything of value to reflect upon. his interests (at 
>least in this forum) are to endlessly "consider" deities
>and make fun of atheists by misunderstanding "faith".
_________________________________________________________
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=27698&dict=CALD

faith (TRUST)   Show phonetics
noun [U]
great trust or confidence in something or someone
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
    Try presenting a definition of faith which does not
include having a strong belief. If you can't, then we
have only reason to believe that strong atheists have
faith in their own belief which of course I must so I do.

>>> >but for that day, you gotta admit they were pretty advanced...
>>>
>>> In some ways, but they were still a long way from the
>>> printing press. The fact that the Bible managed to survive
>>> even though people tried to eradicate it is evidence (not
>>> proof) to me of God's possible existence.
>
>explain this, please, insofar as you understand how 
>it can be a reason to think of deity-possibility.

    Since I believe that humans managed to destroy all
copies of many different books over the years, I have
reason to believe that the Bible could very well have
been another of them if God did not exist and help it
to survive. What's hard about that?

>your logic is full of holes. you don't explain what
>you mean by "evidence" but are throwing terms around
>as if you are an empiricist in order to lure in atheists.
>
>>This in and of itself is not special. Rock and Roll music managed to
>>survive despite a serious, intense attempt to exterminate it-does that
>>mean it is superior to all other forms of music? Did it have some kind
>>of "divine protection" from its enemies? Or did it simply survive
>>because it met the emotional needs of a great many people?
>
>perhaps it is evidence of Morpheus' possible existence.
>
>>> Without the
>>> ability to mass produce it, it seems likely to me that it might
>>> have been eliminated if God had not helped it maintain.
>>
>>You are selling human ability short. Ideas fade because they fall 
>>from favor, not because they cannot be protected and expressed. 
>
>tell that to those who excluded Plato during the Dark Ages.
>
>>No one wor****ps the Greek pantheon today, 
>
>tell that to the Neopagans and the Greeks wor****pping 
>Ceres, or some other worthy.
>
>>but *those* tales still survive as well..
>
>mostly due to writers like Evelyn Underhill or Robert Graves,
>or others fascinated by them. in fact they are miniscule in
>their reflection of the expansive religion which surrounded
>them. most large cultures' gods have myriad cycles of tales,
>and only some of them extend into the consciousness of the
>future.
>
>is Thoth the God of Wisdom? which is superior, Horus or Osiris?
>
>nocTifer
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