On Apr 27, 1:00=A0am, nocTifer <yronwode.com@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> Hatter<Hatte...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
>
> >panamfl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> >Notice every religion has been touted as the eternal [Truth],
>
> not all of them even believe in eternality.
But the overwhelming majority do
>
> >yet they never seem to survive the fall of the culture
> >that supported them, or at least not intact.
>
> dunno, many Asian and Indian religions have done so.
>
Really? They have survived but there never has been a complete
cultural collapse. No the religions have not survived intact from a
complete collapse of culture....there has ever been a complete
collapse like the Myans, The Celts, The Romans, The Easter
Islanders,etc.
> >Yet when it come to things like ceramics, iron forging,
> >gunpowder....these are not held to be eternal truths
>
> they're technologies, not expressions per se.
>
That's the point. When you figure out how things really work...you
have found something much closer to an eternal truth than the myths
and magics
> >by religion but most seem to easily survive the fall
> >of the culture that invented
>
> technology will do so if there is a incentive to
> retain it.
>
Mostly...because unlike religion...it works...that's my point
> >them. Yet, they were not held to the esteem religion was.
>
> of course, because ultimacy is compelling.
> technology is not ultimate. it is pragmatic.
Pragmatic...exactly. Non-cultural dependent. The way the real world
works...unlike myth and magic
>
> >It really isn't difficult to figure out science works
>
> knowledge applied is convincing.
>
> >and survive because it is real
>
> and so if science doesn't survive then it isn't real?
> I don't follow the logic.
>
No, you've got it slightly backward..if it doesn't survive, chances
are it wasn't real. If something is cultural dependent,
religion...magic....mythology...it was a cultural convention and not
an aspect of how the real world works. Now there are some lost
technolgies...I'll give you that, and there were some non-real memes
that survive culutral shifts, yes. However when you look at cross
cultural survivability and spread, technology seems to be right at the
top of the list.
> >and religion doesn't because it is cultural.
>
> if religion does then it is real? the standards you are
> using to evaluate these things seems somewhat arbitrary.
>
No...it was an observation of how easily religion falls apart when a
culture that supported it does and drawing a conclusion based on
scores and scores of example throughout history, yet technology seems
to work for everybody and coming to the obvious conclusion that
religion is a cultural meme(hence not actually real) and technology
works for everyone(hence is real) You can throw mud and split hairs on
this, but it will not change the truth of this statement.
Hatter
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