Re: Big picturez

Robert Epstein wrote:
> ^@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>---*=# wrote:
>> from what i understand from kriya yoga and
>> other sources there is never a time when the
>> mind 'stops' per se. nisargadatta maharaj said
>> that when you reach a 'higher' state, the mind
>> still works but at a higher, more rapid mode of
>> functioning. it gives up on 'word thinking', so to
>> speak and dwells in a type of impression state
>> wherein thoughts and comprehension are much
>> more enhanced.

That seems like a reasonable description, for
"word describing."  The "more rapid" thing still
seems to imply logical-sequential, but just at a
higher clock-rate.  Well, every metaphor fails at
some point (otherwise it would be the literal thing).

> makes sense.
> 
> stopping thought by brute force is not meditation in any case.

At most levels of cognition, stopping thought by brute
force is a contradiction in terms: it is an oxymoron.
The very thought of "stopping thought" is a thought
itself, always hovering there, always keeping one in
the realm of thought.

You can force it a bit, like in the barreling Rinzai
way, but if you force it too much you only get farther
away from it.  There is the old saying: "When you seek
it, you cannot find it."

You actually *can* stop verbal thought by brute force
(at least after some training, for most people).  But
you still haven't completely "stopped thoughts," and
you haven't transcended concepts.

Nonetheless, the ability to stop verbal thoughts and
to transcend verbal thinking is sort of a milestone
along the path.  So it should not be underestimated or
overestimated, but should just be put into perspective.

When one reaches such a point, he or she should just
take the time to observe the world from that
perspective, as much a possible in the cir***stances.
And keep practicing, and keep pu****ng on.