Re: A larger presence, the unknowable total of all there is

"DharmaTroll" <dharmatroll@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:abfa99cb-3ab5-455f-8fe6-4af4b9bee72c@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On May 15, 6:40 pm, Citizen Jimserac <Jimse...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> On May 15, 5:52 pm, RaaN <raan2...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>> If you check on that research link I posted,
>> you'll find double blind placebo controlled
>> tests giving positive results for Homeopathy
>> for certain conditions.  Nothing ambiguous
>
> Except it isn't so.  No study has ever been replicated that gave
> homeopathy statistically significant results.
>
> Again, the advantage is that those as clueless as Citizen Joker here
> won't hurt themselves by taking sugar pills with magical stories
> added; whereas if they start taking herbs, they can hurt themselves
> and easily poison themselves.
>
>> The problem in Homeopathy is that
>> nobody understands how it is working,
>> when it works.
>
> No, we understand completely 100%, how the power of the mind works
> when you give someone a sugar pill and a magic story.  Your line here
> is meant to cover up the magic water claims, that water is really
> magic and can remember, so that even though it's just water, it's
> magic water, which imparts its magic onto the sugar pills.  That's the
> best story homeopathy comes up with.  When that's debunked, you say
> "we don't know how it works" playing the black box card.  But there is
> no black box.  It's a placebo.  Indeed, every person I've ever known
> that has gone for homopathetic medicine has denied the placebo effect
> and doesn't really understand the power of the mind.  How our minds
> work and heal our selves when we have beliefs:  that's the mystery
> that nobody understands.  So get it straight here.
>
>> Homeopathy has been in use for 200 years
>> and has actually performed better in
>> past cholera
>> and influenza epidemics than the standard
>> treatments of the times.
>
> Again, when the alternatives were barbarous quackery, homopathetic
> medicine won by default, because harmless sugar pills and magic
> stories are harmless, whereas every other treatment killed the
> patient!  And the placebo effect has been going on for more than 200
> years -- homopathetic medicine simply raised it to a new height by
> introducing the sugar pill.
>
> Also, not a single positive result better than placebo has ever been
> statistically demonstrated in over 200 years.  That's pretty laughable
> that you turn around and call 200 years of absolute complete failure
> some kind of proof that it's really magic and heals people, when
> people are healing themselves, as with any other placebo.
>
>> The key to Homeopathy is
>> that you have to accept that the mechanism
>> by which it works is unknown,
>
> Replace "placebo" for "Homeopathy" in that sentence and you are
> correct.
>
> The key is you have to believe it works.  That's the big secret.
>
>> I suspect that with advanced modern test
>> equipment such as MRI's, continued research
>> will confirm Homeopathy's mechanism
>
> They already have.  They've confirmed with 99.99% certainty that it's
> placebo.  And they've demonstrated why the "dilutions" in homopathetic
> medicine are nonsensical.
>
> Even you can do the math.  (It's much easier than even the simplest of
> physics that I've been discussing recently.)
>
> Most homopathetic remedies today range from 6X to 30X.  A 30X dilution
> means that the original substance has been diluted
> 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times. Assuming that a cubic
> centimeter of water contains 15 drops, this number is greater than the
> number of drops of water that would fill a container more than 50
> times the size of the Earth.  D'oh!  Imagine placing a drop of red dye
> into such a container so that it disperses evenly. Homeopathy's "law
> of infinitesimals" is the equivalent of saying that any drop of water
> subsequently removed from that container will possess an essence of
> redness.  Robert L. Park, Ph.D., a prominent physicist who is
> executive director of The American Physical Society, has noted that
> since the least amount of a substance in a solution is one molecule, a
> 30C solution would have to have at least one molecule of the original
> substance dissolved in a minimum of
> 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
> ,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of water. This would
> require a container more than 30 billion times the size of the Earth.
>
> Let me repeat:  This would require a container more than 30 billion
> times the size of the Earth.  The homopathetic quacks' response --
> "well the water is magic and remembers the essence in its spiritual
> memory".  Utter Bull****.  Is there anyone on this list besides
> Citizen Joker that needs any more of a demonstration of the absurdity
> and quackery of this sham?
>
> --DharmaTroll


Hi DT,

It is something that will never be resolved, I think.   I have friends who

are into homeopathy too, and there is no discussing it in scientific
terms. 
They swear it works.   As for me, I will go to the doctor first, and try 
alternatives later.

-- 
Best Regards,

Evelyn