Re: Where rubberz meets the roadz (was Re: Cats have 9 Lives)

On May 14, 1:52=A0pm, Dave K <dkotsch...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On May 13, 10:49=A0pm, Awaken21 <lukecar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > On May 13, 2:33=A0pm, RaaN <raan2...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > On May 12, 10:15 pm, Awaken21 <lukecar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 12, 3:15 pm, RaaN <raan2...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > > On May 12, 12:14 am, Robert Epstein <vze25...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
>
> > > > > > ^@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>---*=3D# wrote:
>
> > > > > > > "Tang Huyen" <tanghuyen{dele...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
me=
ssage
> > > > > > >news:7oidnYEf8oeZYLvVnZ2dnUVZ_rjinZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > > > > > >> liaM wrote:
>
> > > > > > >>> And what of jazz and voodoo ? =A0What do you
> > > > > > >>> have to say about that, Mr. Huyen ?
>
> > > > > > >> Jazz, or any performance art in general,
> > > > > > >> including theatre and classical music, is very
> > > > > > >> much like Bu****do, in that all of them pivot
> > > > > > >> on the ability of the performers to put
> > > > > > >> themselves aside tem****arily and assume
> > > > > > >> another character during that time, let that
> > > > > > >> other character fill them up, and perform
> > > > > > >> according to that other character (let the
> > > > > > >> other character run them). They can even
> > > > > > >> perform "against type", in that the other
> > > > > > >> character is radically different from them,
> > > > > > >> even contrary to them. Greatness is in
> > > > > > >> harmonising themselves so that they and the
> > > > > > >> other character blend together seamlessly
> > > > > > >> and swiingly, and are not separate entities.
> > > > > > >> The ensuing synergy creates the flow and
> > > > > > >> incandescence that great performances are
> > > > > > >> known for.
>
> > > > > > >> I don't know whether voodoo death is for
> > > > > > >> real, but something resembling it though
> > > > > > >> vastly less severe occurs on these boards.
>
> > > > > > >> Fu and Jigme are locked (have locked
> > > > > > >> themselves) in a tight and unenviable spot:
> > > > > > >> trying to argue the worth of their life (to
> > > > > > >> justify and validate themselves) by way of
> > > > > > >> somebody else. They have freely given up
> > > > > > >> their independence and self-valuation to
> > > > > > >> somebody else, and have to leverage the
> > > > > > >> worth of their life (which is the existential
> > > > > > >> issue par excellence) by way of somebody
> > > > > > >> else, whose look on them is the very worth
> > > > > > >> of their life to them, no less. This is the
> > > > > > >> classic idealism in the German sense: the
> > > > > > >> intuition creates what it intuits. They have
> > > > > > >> invested from their own side in somebody
> > > > > > >> else the power to look at their life and create
> > > > > > >> the value of it to them. They have left to
> > > > > > >> themselves no power to look at their life
> > > > > > >> and evaluate it and its worth to themselves.
> > > > > > >> Somebody else by default (by delegation
> > > > > > >> from them) has monopolised it, with their
> > > > > > >> full knowledge and consent. That is their
> > > > > > >> self-stuff invested by them, and it is in the
> > > > > > >> control of somebody else, whose say in the
> > > > > > >> matter is the final word, to Fu and Jigme.
> > > > > > >> This is why Fu and Jigme have to chase that
> > > > > > >> somebody else around and around, year after
> > > > > > >> year, to get his approval (which constitutes
> > > > > > >> their self-valuing to them), though in
> > > > > > >> appearance they bash him relentlessly. They
> > > > > > >> invest the power of life (if not of physical
> > > > > > >> life, at least of the value of life) in somebody
> > > > > > >> else, who has control over it, *by remote* so
> > > > > > >> to speak. In a sense they throw themselves
> > > > > > >> away and let somebody else do the valuing of
> > > > > > >> their life for them in their stead.
>
> > > > > > >> In Japanese Buddhism, there is the distinction
> > > > > > >> between self-power and other-power. Fu and
> > > > > > >> Jigme, faithful Japanese Buddhists (who
> > > > > > >> pretend to go physicalist, to protect the
> > > > > > >> innocent), go all the way for the latter.
>
> > > > > > >> (Jigme, by abusively adopting the nym of
> > > > > > >> DharmaTroll, has cruelly robbed himself of
> > > > > > >> the pleasure of ba****ng Japanese culture in
> > > > > > >> general and Japanese Zen in particular as
> > > > > > >> borrowing hugely from their Korean
> > > > > > >> counterparts. He is also *locked up in a time
> > > > > > >> capsule from late 1999, frozen solid some
> > > > > > >> eight years and a half ago*, around the time
> > > > > > >> of his brutal crash, which occurred in late
> > > > > > >> Summer 1999, but the real DharmaTroll has
> > > > > > >> no reason to be hung up on that time frame,
> > > > > > >> as nothing im****tant occurred to him around
> > > > > > >> that time, more specifically he underwent no
> > > > > > >> personality change around that time).
>
> > > > > > >> All very zenny, as Jen would say.
>
> > > > > > >> Tang Huyen
>
> > > > > > > when you get into creativity mode deep enough
> > > > > > > it's not that you exchange one character for another
> > > > > > > but it is such that you do indeed relinquish that ' i '
> > > > > > > thought that * i * spoke of earlier and you become
> > > > > > > creativity itself. when i sit at the easel and paint
> > > > > > > or when i pick up the guitar or sit down at the
> > > > > > > piano the creative muses coagulate and the
> > > > > > > personality based on genetic heritage and that
> > > > > > > narcissistic core of the ego take a back seat to
> > > > > > > enjoy the creative aspects of imagination's
> > > > > > > expression. =A0there is probably no better way
> > > > > > > towards relinquishment of the ego than through
> > > > > > > pure creative expression even though that very
> > > > > > > same creative expression can slip off that razor's
> > > > > > > edge and create super egos at times like in the
> > > > > > > case of rock stars.
>
> > > > > > that's the problem with the path of art; it gives
enlightenment =
when its
> > > > > > particular device is practiced, whether it's writing poetry or
p=
laying
> > > > > > the guitar; but it usually remains localized and doesn't
interpe=
netrate
> > > > > > all the areas of living that bring one back down to the ego;
mos=
tly
> > > > > > because art doesn't have real-life consequences in the same
way =
that
> > > > > > life does.
>
> > > > > > Robert
>
> > > > > > =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D
>
> > > > > I found that playing a keyboard, even as ploddingly inept as I
am,=

> > > > > quickly becomes like a meditative exercise and I lose all track
of=

> > > > > time. =A0So why should sitting meditation be different such that
i=
t
> > > > > should "interpenetrate" all the areas of living? =A0The more
often=
 one
> > > > > discovers that state of absorption and nonduality by whatever
> > > > > modality, in my opinion means the more accessible it is likely
to =
be
> > > > > in other areas and activities.
> > > > > --
> > > > > RaaN
>
> > > > I'd disagree. No other kind of activity delivers away from the
> > > > activity to the degree that sitting meditation does. I'm not sure
wh=
y
> > > > that is, but I completely understand why the Buddha only taught
form=
s
> > > > of seated meditation, there's a huge difference in efficacy away
fro=
m
> > > > the activity. It's not just the state of absorbtion during the
> > > > activity which is considerable, it's the emotional balance and
self
> > > > discipline away from it where seated meditation excels and differs
> > > > from other activities like playing an instrument or drawing, or
othe=
r
> > > > focused activities.
>
> > > Perhaps it's addictive.. ever experienced meditation withdrawal?
> > > --
> > > RaaN
>
> > hehe
>
> > Meditation is a discipline, it's much easier not to meditate than it
> > is to make it a habit. And even as a simple behavioral habit it's not
> > very sticky. OTOH there are certain psychological aspects that could
> > be said to be similar to addiction, i.e. after a while you know
> > difference in yourself when you're away from it awhile, and it does
> > rearrange your brain architecture over time. However the drive to do
> > it again is more like when you play a s****t or have a hobby that you
> > love doing and get away from it for awhile, you miss it and want to
> > get back to it. Which is something like addiction but not really. It's
> > not like I'll ever find myself on the street mugging an old lady for
> > money to find a quiet spot to sit. :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I wonder why people are so quick to wonder how addictive meditation
> can be. =A0You never hear people say the same thing about showering, or
> bru****ng your teeth, yet not only are these things considered OK on a
> daily basis, but missing a day immediately puts you in the "ick"
> category.
>
> -DaveK

Ego scared ****less of it's own death, sends out it's henchman, the
intellect, to take care of the threat. Intellect builds irrellevent
straw men out of unrelated concepts to protect it's master. It's
childs play compared to what comes later though, if that particularly
weak shadow keeps you away, you're probably not ready to walk the path
anyway.