Triumphalism vs. Oprah (was Re: No speeding trucks)

On May 9, 3:37 am, Renli <oliver.rich...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On May 9, 8:59 am, DharmaTroll <dharmatr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > If a poster said (and not with irony or satire) "I am an enlightened
> > once-returner" or "I am a fully enlightened arhat" or whatever, I
> > wouldn't even need to test them -- I'd assume their nutz to begin
> > with.
>
> Why would you assume that? Do you mean you would assume that without
> investigating further to make sure?

You ask diverse questions, that I'm answering them in a couple of
different posts.

Here in America, especially up and down the center 'stripe' of the
country, we have many triumphalistic religious people, called
evangelists, who claim that their sect of their religion is the only
path to truth, and that everyone else is going to hell, or is
inferior, etc.  In fact, demographically, if you trace Interstate
Highway 35 up through the United States, it seems to go through all
the areas populated by clueless spiritual fools.  But even here on the
East Coast, the nuns in my Catholic school taught us that only the
Pope had the direct pipeline to God, and that other Christian sects as
well as Buddhists, Jews, atheists, etc. were all going to eternal
'hell' after death. At about 13, I realized that all of these folks
couldn't see outside their own experience, and were like the little
child that says "my daddy can beat up your daddy" and "my mommy is the
best mommy".

> > Personally, I don't have to wait for self-righteous triumphalistic
> > posters to 'crash': if one merely states "my sect is the best sect and
> > everyone else's is inferior to mine" or "everyone else's goes to level
> > 10, but only mine goes to 11", etc., that's enough for me do dismiss
> > them as ridiculous.  They may still make good points or recommend good
> > books, but no serious good teacher could possibly make such an
> > ignorant claim.
>
> What if such a claim was objectively true? How do you know it is
> ridiculous?

There are people who claim that aliens from space are among us and
have taken over the bodies of the heads of state in all the im****tant
countries.  What if such a claim were objectively true as well?

It's the wrong question to ask.  Sure it's possible, but it's highly
unlikely, in both kinds of cases.  There is no reason to waste time
with claims that aren't backed up by evidence.  The key maxim in all
these cases, especially with religious nutters making triumphalistic
or grandiose claims is:

"What can be asserted without evidence can be just as easily dismissed
without evidence."

> >  Same thing with claiming that only guys can get
> > enlightened and girls have to be reborn as dudes to be enlightened. If
> > someone takes such cultural crap literally and goes along with the
> > ***ism of it, they are seriously deluded.
>
> Pretty much everyone can see through that one by now I'd hope.

Ya think?  If you come to America and drive up and down Interstate 35,
you'll find millions and millions of people who make deluded claims
like that, just slightly different (such that if you don't accept
Jesus and their sect in particular, you will burn in hell).

With the multiplicity of spiritual paths available today, unlike when
there was only one or two choices in your culture, any 'teacher', or
student for that matter, who can't have the insight that I had at only
13 years old -- that everyone feels inside that what they've learned
and experienced is the best -- is simply not worth my time.
Transcending triumphalism is the first step toward any kind of
rational awareness, and if they can't have the awareness I had at 13,
they have screened themselves out.  Similarly, I wouldn't date a girl
that used the word "ain't" or used double-negatives, such as "I can't
get no satisfaction".  (It's fine with poetry, btw, as I grant the
Rolling Stones a "poetic license" for the wonderful almost Buddhist
song with that title.)  Whether some woman who I dismiss as an idiot
because she says "ain't" might have turned out to be an enlightened
being who has multiple orgasms, and I missed out, doesn't bother me,
because the odds are so against it, and it's a practical way to avoid
wasting my time.  And that goes double with spiritual 'teachers'.

Worthy of mentioning as an exception to the "my mommy is the best
mommy" triumphalist spirituality is the popular American talk show
host Oprah, who is delightfully non-triumphalistic.

In fact, some nutters who claim they are the only path created a video
of clips of Oprah talking about religion to demonstrate how evil and
un-Christian she is.  In an act of utter irony, they seem to have
picked some wonderful clips which should make most Buddhists and other
cool spiritual people like her!  Oprah actually comes off flattering
and looking wise and intelligent and spiritual -- which was the
opposite of the intention of the video makers.  It's a wonderful
insight into the conflicts in America concerning spirituality of all
kinds.  Take a look and see what you think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW4LLwkgmqA

--DharmaTroll