"dt" <daletx@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:fvvllt$ben$2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Evelyn Ruut wrote:
>
>> "Robert Epstein" <vze256xu@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> news:qhuUj.7826$0L.1337@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>> Evelyn Ruut wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Robert Epstein" <vze256xu@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>> news:lg9Uj.1396$b%1.239@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>
>>>>> tara wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 5 May 2008 21:27:19 -0400, RaaN wrote
>>>>>> (in article
>>>>>>
<aa895768-77d2-4d32-ad5e-4a0d60ad5cd2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 5, 5:06 am, Raymond <ni...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 4 May 2008 18:27:03 -0700 (PDT), Awaken21
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <lukecar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 4, 6:56?am, Tang Huyen
>>>>>>>>> <tanghuyen{dele...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Raymond wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RaaN:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Raymond:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
":
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The self is like an arrow in flight. If we look at it at
any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time, it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an illusion and can be dropped. But this is also an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> illusion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How can the realization of illusion be an illusion itself?
?Is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dreamer still dreaming when he wakes up? or has the dreamer
>>>>>>>>>>>>> waken up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It can be an illusion itself if realization is also illusory
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> awakening is like a lucid dream rather than any actual
>>>>>>>>>>>> awakening so
>>>>>>>>>>>> the dream persists despite a dream realization that it is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> dream.
>>>>>>>>>>>> One might be awake but on LSD and think one is having a
waking
>>>>>>>>>>>> dream.
>>>>>>>>>>>> So what then is awakening at all but another delusion?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Since cheap awakening is a dime a dozen in this day and age,
who
>>>>>>>>>>> cares?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On the theory of the universal Buddha-nature,
>>>>>>>>>> awakening is basic and universal, therefore it
>>>>>>>>>> is not just a dime a dozen but flat-out free. It
>>>>>>>>>> is the default, inalienable state, which we could
>>>>>>>>>> not drive away if we wanted to.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But we can cover it up until we are no longer able to recognize
>>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>>> touch it, hear it's voice. That's why the Buddha taught
>>>>>>>>> cultivation
>>>>>>>>> because...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pure bull****. The reason you think you can cover it up is
because
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> never really had it in the first place. What makes you think you
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> so powerful that you can deny Christ? It is only because you are
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> son of the Devil who will never call Christ your true father.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even so, why bother, especially about
>>>>>>>>>> distingui****ng between awakening and delusion
>>>>>>>>>> or whatever? Better just relax and be serene.
>>>>>>>>>> Actually, such a blasé attitude would be
>>>>>>>>>> perfectly at home with the Buddha-nature,
>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't it? The Buddha-nature would be
>>>>>>>>>> inherent to it, like built-in, wouldn't it? They
>>>>>>>>>> would fit each other like hand and glove,
>>>>>>>>>> wouldn't they?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...just relaxing and being serene in the face of everything that
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> added and piled up over our Buddha nature takes cultivation, a
>>>>>>>>> peeling
>>>>>>>>> away of the mistaken habits we've built up over it in ignorance.
>>>>>>>>> If it
>>>>>>>>> was easy or simple to relax and be serene in the face of our
>>>>>>>>> enemies,
>>>>>>>>> in the face of hateful people, in the face of cir***stances that
>>>>>>>>> push
>>>>>>>>> the limits of credulity, then the Buddha could have stayed
>>>>>>>>> meditating
>>>>>>>>> under his tree and never uttered a word.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why are the self proclaimed wor****ppers of the God of Love so
often
>>>>>>> filled with such Hate?
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> RaaN
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh, what a very good question. Often wondered this myself. Maybe
>>>>>> it's because when you go to one extreme, blindly, nature requires
the
>>>>>> other extreme to try to balance out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> tara
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, you have to listen to the teacher. How many people who are
>>>>> attracted to being "righteous" and "saved" actually study the words
of
>>>>> Jesus - not Paul and everyone else - and put them directly into
>>>>> practice.
>>>>>
>>>>> You know, if Christian spent one whole day trying to "love his
enemy"
>>>>> and "forgive him" however many thousands of times in a row Jesus
>>>>> advocated, how transformative would that be? I mean, how many
>>>>> Christians spend their time trying to put those teachings into daily
>>>>> practice?
>>>>>
>>>>> Same with Buddhism. Does anyone read the advice of the Buddha and
>>>>> actually try to take it seriously? If they do, then maybe they are
>>>>> "Buddhists."
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>>> = = = = = = = = =
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Robert I am convinced that this is exactly why the tibetan buddhists
>>>> have so many little rituals and beliefs, because they are designed to
>>>> keep you mindful of these things on a regular basis. Notice the
>>>> Muslims pray 5 times a day with a regular ritual involved with it.
>>>> People tend to forget when things aren't fresh in their minds.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That does make sense.
>>>
>>> Although some people don't like the idea, as a yogi I find the idea of
>>> prostrations to really exemplify that, both physically and
psychically.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>> = = = = = = =
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes. It works, that's why so many religions use these little tricks.
>
> Yeah, but one of the big tricks is to actually *pay attention* to what
> you're doing. How many people can rattle off something like (just as an
> example) the Lord's Prayer? But do they actually forgive as they would
> like to be forgiven? Do they even think about what they're saying?
>
> DT
Hi Dale,
For some yes, for most, probably not.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
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