Re: Cheap thrills (was Re: Interiority? Or inter-relatedness?)

"possum" <zen102422@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:48211e06$0$10637$fa0fcedb@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> <jfezl07@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
> news:38cbedbb-6888-4515-ba32-e2b81f426fe4@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On 6 May, 19:34, "possum" <zen102...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> <jfez...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>
>>
news:f281cb67-4bf9-4811-8207-bb5a58ed6580@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On 6 May, 16:22, Raymond <ni...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Tue, 6 May 2008 15:58:12 -0700 (PDT), Awaken21
>>
>> > <lukecar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> > >On May 5, 9:27?pm, RaaN <raan2...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> > >> On May 5, 5:06 am, Raymond <ni...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>> > >> > On Sun, 4 May 2008 18:27:03 -0700 (PDT), Awaken21
>>
>> > >> > <lukecar...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> > >> > >On May 4, 6:56?am, Tang Huyen
>> > >> > ><tanghuyen{dele...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> > >> > >wrote:
>> > >> > >> Raymond wrote:
>> > >> > >> > RaaN:
>>
>> > >> > >> > >Raymond:
>>
>> > >> > >> > >> "ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
":
>>
>> > >> > >> > >> >The self is like an arrow in flight. If 
>> > >> > >> > >> >we
>> > >> > >> > >> >look at it at any time, it
>> > >> > >> > >> >is an illusion and can be dropped. But 
>> > >> > >> > >> >this
>> > >> > >> > >> >is also an illusion.
>>
>> > >> > >> > >> How can the realization of illusion be an
>> > >> > >> > >> illusion itself? ?Is the
>> > >> > >> > >> dreamer still dreaming when he wakes up? 
>> > >> > >> > >> or
>> > >> > >> > >> has the dreamer waken up
>> > >> > >> > >> yet?
>>
>> > >> > >> > >It can be an illusion itself if realization 
>> > >> > >> > >is
>> > >> > >> > >also illusory and
>> > >> > >> > >awakening is like a lucid dream rather than 
>> > >> > >> > >any
>> > >> > >> > >actual awakening so
>> > >> > >> > >the dream persists despite a dream 
>> > >> > >> > >realization
>> > >> > >> > >that it is a dream.
>> > >> > >> > >One might be awake but on LSD and think one 
>> > >> > >> > >is
>> > >> > >> > >having a waking dream.
>> > >> > >> > >So what then is awakening at all but another
>> > >> > >> > >delusion?
>>
>> > >> > >> > Since cheap awakening is a dime a dozen in 
>> > >> > >> > this
>> > >> > >> > day and age, who
>> > >> > >> > cares?
>>
>> > >> > >> > :-)
>>
>> > >> > >> On the theory of the universal Buddha-nature,
>> > >> > >> awakening is basic and universal, therefore it
>> > >> > >> is not just a dime a dozen but flat-out free. 
>> > >> > >> It
>> > >> > >> is the default, inalienable state, which we 
>> > >> > >> could
>> > >> > >> not drive away if we wanted to.
>>
>> > >> > >But we can cover it up until we are no longer 
>> > >> > >able
>> > >> > >to recognize it,
>> > >> > >touch it, hear it's voice. That's why the Buddha
>> > >> > >taught cultivation
>> > >> > >because...
>>
>> > >> > Pure bull****. The reason you think you can cover 
>> > >> > it
>> > >> > up is because you
>> > >> > never really had it in the first place. What makes
>> > >> > you think you are
>> > >> > so powerful that you can deny Christ? It is only
>> > >> > because you are the
>> > >> > son of the Devil who will never call Christ your 
>> > >> > true
>> > >> > father.
>>
>> > >> > >> Even so, why bother, especially about
>> > >> > >> distingui****ng between awakening and delusion
>> > >> > >> or whatever? Better just relax and be serene.
>> > >> > >> Actually, such a blasé attitude would be
>> > >> > >> perfectly at home with the Buddha-nature,
>> > >> > >> wouldn't it? The Buddha-nature would be
>> > >> > >> inherent to it, like built-in, wouldn't it? 
>> > >> > >> They
>> > >> > >> would fit each other like hand and glove,
>> > >> > >> wouldn't they?
>>
>> > >> > >...just relaxing and being serene in the face of
>> > >> > >everything that we
>> > >> > >added and piled up over our Buddha nature takes
>> > >> > >cultivation, a peeling
>> > >> > >away of the mistaken habits we've built up over 
>> > >> > >it
>> > >> > >in ignorance. If it
>> > >> > >was easy or simple to relax and be serene in the
>> > >> > >face of our enemies,
>> > >> > >in the face of hateful people, in the face of
>> > >> > >cir***stances that push
>> > >> > >the limits of credulity, then the Buddha could 
>> > >> > >have
>> > >> > >stayed meditating
>> > >> > >under his tree and never uttered a word.
>>
>> > >> Why are the self proclaimed wor****ppers of the God 
>> > >> of
>> > >> Love so often
>> > >> filled with such Hate?
>> > >> --
>>
>> > >Are you asking me to repeat myself? :)
>> > >Ever hang out with people who are constantly invoking
>> > >some ideal like
>> > >God or Patriotism or whatever. It's creepy, always 
>> > >rings
>> > >hollow to me.
>>
>> > You could be a far better believer than a stupid zen
>> > Buddhist. You
>> > know neither Zen nor Buddhism. A simple faith could 
>> > have
>> > saved you a
>> > lot of problems due to your lack of intelligent
>> > understanding. You are
>> > a piece of clueless ****.
>> >>What's wrong with a piece of clueless ****?
>>
>> clueless **** is bogus.
>
> Where's the freedom without clueless? What's not bogus?
>
> ****?
i thought this didn't send.  i'm not going to say it again, 
that would be just asking for diarhea...