Re: Interiority? Or inter-relatedness?

On May 5, 9:28=A0am, Raymond <ni...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 05:05:32 -0700 (PDT), "ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> <ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >On May 5, 7:36?am, Raymond <ni...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 5 May 2008 04:04:07 -0700 (PDT), "ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> >> <ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> >On May 5, 6:06?am, Raymond <ni...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 4 May 2008 18:45:18 -0700 (PDT), "ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> >> >> <ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> >> >On May 3, 12:10?pm, Raymond <ni...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> >> >> On Sat, 3 May 2008 07:33:10 -0700 (PDT), "ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> >> >> >> <ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> >> >> >On May 3, 7:01?am, Raymond <ni...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> On Thu, 1 May 2008 17:43:25 -0700 (PDT),
"ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> >> >> >> >> <ltl...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >The self is like an arrow in flight. If we look at it at
any =
time, it
> >> >> >> >> >is an illusion and can be dropped. But this is also an
illusi=
on.
>
> >> >> >> >> How can the realization of illusion be an illusion itself?
?Is=
 the
> >> >> >> >> dreamer still dreaming when he wakes up? or has the dreamer
wa=
ken up
> >> >> >> >> yet?
>
> >> >> >> >1.The self we can know is always time limited. It is like a
snap=
shot
> >> >> >> >of an arrow in flight. It is never the true self because the
> >> >> >> >dynamicism of an arrow in flight or the real self cannot be
capt=
ured.
> >> >> >> >Why our mind cannot function like a camcorder? One explanation
i=
s too
> >> >> >> >many junks inside.
>
> >> >> >> >2. Whether we do anything or not, we are always dropping the
sel=
f at
> >> >> >> >time t.Let us call it self(t). ?But as soon as we drop self t,
w=
e are
> >> >> >> >picking up self(t+1). So, one's awareness of dropping the self
i=
s also
> >> >> >> >an illusion.
>
> >> >> >> I agree everything the mind can think of is an illusion, but
that=
 does
> >> >> >> not mean there is no reality which the mind can not think of.
To =
claim
> >> >> >> the self is an illusion is a good start, but to claim Buddhism
is=
 all
> >> >> >> about no self is a ****ing idiot. Buddhism is about the Buddha
mi=
nd
> >> >> >> which is the crown Jewel of this universe, and it is real and
tru=
e
> >> >> >> more than everything else.
>
> >> >> >The self, or Buddha-ness, is there all along but it is a self
outsi=
de
> >> >> >of time. Outside of time means outside of causation. It is also
> >> >> >outside the control of all power relation****ps. Hence freedom.
>
> >> >> No. I categorically disagree.
>
> >> >Please present your view.
>
> >> You can never say Buddha nature is either within or without time or
> >> anything else let alone causation. Buddha nature is the wisdom that
> >> will not be fooled by space and time or causality. Remember the
famous
> >> Chinese fox zen story?
>
> >Please relate the zen story.
>
> Don't we love wikipedia? I just found it there.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_fox_koan
>
> Bad translation though. In my opinion, it should be: "Don't be fooled
> by cause and effect".

Thank you. I think you are right. "Don't be fooled by cause and
effect" is exactly the point. "Buddhist nature" if looking from the
outside in, it is nothing but another psychological construct. It
reality is one's "experience" with it.

An example. "2+2=3D4" is an atem****al truth. As long the characters are
understood, two plus two always equal to four. This is arithematic
nature. Now if two persons are arguing wether 2+2 =3D 4 through a
causation framework, they are trapped.  Every arguement on whether two
plus two should be or should not be four is like self(t) or self (t+1)
or self(t+2) ... .
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> >> In addition, Buddha nature is already freedom itself. There is no
need
> >> for Buddha nature to be under certain condition to be free from
> >> relation****ps in order to experience freedom. It is perfection.
>
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