On 2 May, 19:59, Keynes <Key...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Fri, 2 May 2008 19:10:40 -0700 (PDT), jfez...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> >On 2 May, 15:40, Tang Huyen <tanghuyen{dele...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >wrote:
> >> Robert Epstein wrote:
> >> > One easy way, along the "they who have crashed" line, is to rule
out
> >> > those who are obviously defensive, holding onto views for dear
life, in
> >> > a fit to be "right" and not to be "wrong," point out others' faults
> >> > without ever commenting on their own, and who are in a froth of
rage or
> >> > despair over others' behavior; all obvious signs that the painfully
> >> > suffering-producing ego is fully activated! I get quite a bit of
> >> > enjoyment out of watching myself display all of these symptoms, so
I am
> >> > quite content to assess myself as not quite baked, to be generous.
>
> >> > Those who are not quite baked may still be discerning enough to
notice
> >> > certain things about themselves and others, especially if they are
open
> >> > to seeing their own flaws and so are not totally overtaken by
> >> > self-defending maneouvers.
>
> >> > Personally, I believe I have been in the presence of some greatly
> >> > enlightened beings, and a few others who were ****HiGhLy
DeVeLoPeD***,
> >> > well beyond myself, and so I have a pretty good sense of what that
looks
> >> > like, even though it may be quite different in different cases,
they
> >> > show a kind of freedom from convention, yet centered discernment
and a
> >> > highly incisive quality, that is common to all.
>
> >> > In person, they also exude a form of exceedingly powerful energy,
light,
> >> > grace, or whatever you may call it, that is palpable, discernable,
and
> >> > obvious when you encounter it. It is not of this world.
>
> >> From the bottom up, I tend to go by elimination.
> >> Defensiveness is a definite disqualifier. At a
> >> minimum an awakened has plenty of room in his
> >> mind, so that he can take much that would disturb
> >> a deluded without getting bothered, even less
> >> upset, like criticism or blame. If somebody blows
> >> up on criticism or blame, especially by mere
> >> words on the screen, time and again, I can safely
> >> adjudge him deluded.
>
> >> Somebody who refuses to admit faults and errors,
> >> past and present, is not awakened. An awakened
> >> may or may not hold up every single time, but
> >> if he falters, he should know that fact and also
> >> be able to recover from it quickly. Contrariwise,
> >> somebody who, say, blows up on being challenged
> >> and who hardly recovers even after weeks or
> >> months is not awakened, far from it.
>
> >> I look for the external behaviour of somebody
> >> who has attained to peace with himself and to
> >> reconciliation with himself, somebody who is
> >> settled with himself, in accord and harmony with
> >> himself and his world, who is comfortable in his
> >> skin. Such a person should also display grace,
> >> generosity, magnanimity, non-resistance,
> >> especially with regard to criticism and blame. He
> >> is going to display flexibility (as opposed to
> >> rigidity), openness, balance and perspective,
> >> tolerance for ambiguity, and to be able to switch
> >> between different and divergent perspectives, even
> >> contrary ones.
>
> >> He seems to be some kind of *mental eel*, in that
> >> he slips through holes and boxes easefully and
> >> effortlessly, both holes and boxes of his own and
> >> those proffered to him by others. I can't pin him
> >> down, can't trip him up, can't locate him, can't
> >> situate him, can't catch him, can't box him, can't
> >> trap him, can't frame him. He shows tremendous
> >> presence, tremendous focus, tremendous
> >> mindfulness, but gives no handle by which to grab
> >> hold of him. In dealing with him, I only see me, my
> >> own projections. He acts as mere mirror, which
> >> pulls out my projections from me willy nilly, a black
> >> hole which draws me in but offers no support, no
> >> platform, no bottom -- no resistance.
>
> >> Somebody who has not attained to that much is
> >> surely not going to be awakened. But if he passes
> >> those tests, the possibilities are great.
>
> >> Tang Huyen
>
> >I think I'll be fully at peace with myself when I'm dead. Seriously
> >though I don't hold any expectation in my lifetime to be enlightened
> >I've had too much shit in my life. Maybe if I moved into a monastery
> >for 10 years but even then, the past can't be erased.
>
> Actually the past can't be maintained by any means.
> The opposite opinion is called 'clinging'.
> Neither past nor future can help or harm you Now.
>
> >Maybe that's
> >what the Buddha means about lifetimes. Everyone is different I think
> >it's best to just measure yourself against yourself and do what you
> >can.
>
> Good idea.
> Even better is to drop self, body, and mind.
Drop it yourself.
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