"You are free to say you are saved and I am damned,"
I said no such thing. And this is such an obstacle to communication
with you.
Really. I see no point in this.
On May 24, 6:15=A0pm, "All Bad" <AllBad_notrea...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
> "Bob" <RobertAr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
>
news:e77e2a70-8329-4bd2-9900-65ee51be7d20@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> BA: There is a great difference between idiomatic expressions, such as
to
> make straight the pathways, and expressions which are visions of
> future events.
>
> AB: =A0You lost me there. =A0The passage about making straight the
pathway=
s,
> from Isaiah, "Prepare ye the way of the
> LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." =A0Of course
you=
are
> free to ignore it, free to argue against it, even free to deny your sin
> nature which leads you to do these things. =A0You are free to say you
are
> saved and I am damned, yet the text said to straighten out the road for
Go=
d
> to pass on it. =A0It was an expression of future events and when Jesus
did=
> come to Palestine around 2000 years ago, He was rejected because Elijah
ha=
d
> not come, and other signs had not been fufilled, like this bit of road
wor=
k.
>
> BA: The failure to recognize those differences has been used by many to
> take license with the Word, and to interpret it to fit preconceived
> notions.
>
> AB: =A0Yes, we can all see what you are doing. =A0That does not mean
that =
you
> have to do it. =A0Again, Peter tells you to let God interpret the
scriptur=
e
> for you by using the Bible. =A0"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of
th=
e
> scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in
o=
ld
> time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by
t=
he
> Holy Ghost."
>
> The Pharisees of 2000 years ago rejected Jesus because they interpreted
th=
e
> prophecies to mean the roads would be straight, the hills knocked down,
th=
e
> valleys filled in, likewise that the sunwould go dark and the moon turn
> blood red, SUCH THAT NO ONE COULD MISS THE SIGNS OF THE COMING MESSIAH,
_a=
s_
> _if_ a thief in the night wakes everyone up to plunder the VCR, or the
> silver.
>
> BA: When reading the Bible, one must take care to begin first with the
> text as it is written. =A0Any deviation from that text, for example in
>
> AB: =A0I would add that when one is reading to understand prophesies,
begi=
n at
> the beginning of the Bible, noting both prophecies and fulfillements of
> prophecies. =A0Daniel, Ezekiel, Micha, as well as Isaiah, Joel, and
other =
OT
> books have numerous prophesies in them. =A0Though a few interpretations
ar=
e
> provided in the OT, such as a day for a year in Ezekiel, Matthew and
other=
> New Testament books point out the fulfillement of the prophecies.
>
> BA: passages clearly defined as parables or symbols, must be well
> grounded, and must not lead to such vague or opinionated
> interpretations that render the words themselves of no im****tance.
>
> BA: If we were reading classic poetry, one might endlessly interpret
lines=
> and phrases, because oftentimes, the poet intended the meaning to be
> imprecise, leaving wide latitude for endless, individual
> interpretations.
>
> AB: =A0The correct hermeutic is one where one identifies parallel
propheci=
es
> in both the Old Testament and New Testament, as well as a fulfillement
of
> the prophcy in the New Testament. =A0For example, The Old Testament says
t=
hat
> Elijah, by name, a prophet from the OT, will return before the great and
> terrible day of the Lord. =A0The New Testament says that Jesus will
return=
at
> the end of the Age. =A0The OT prophecy is fulfilled by John the Baptist,
e=
ven
> though he was not even named Elijah, and may have denied it. =A0The
> interpretation of the NT prophecy is that the returned Jesus will not be
> named "Jesus" and might even deny that He is Jesus Christ.
>
> BA: The Bible is not imprecise, and prophecy is not intended for
> individual interpretation.
>
> AB: =A0I suggest you stop interpreting it, and rely on the
interpretations=
> that it has already provided.
>
> BA: If one is to contend that the "mountain" being cast into the sea is
a
> symbol of some sort, then the burden of proof is on him to find
> sup****t in the Bible itself, and to show how it is that his chosen
> "symbol" is to be preferred above others.
>
> AB: =A0Of course. =A0So, if you say that in prophecy, a mountain being
cas=
t into
> the see, means that a material (not a spiritual mountain) will be cast
int=
o
> a material sea, the burden is on you to find such an interpretation for
su=
ch
> a passage in the Bible. =A0The reality is that Christians typically deny
n=
ot
> only Biblical interpretations where physical things such as roads, hills
a=
nd
> valleys, were used as symbols of spiritual things such as direct
> identification, the religiously learned, and the religiously unlearned
(ma=
de
> wise by inspiration). =A0Furthermore, Christians typically deny even
mater=
ial
> interpretations when it suits them. =A0For example, Isaiah said that a
vir=
gin
> would bear a boy child as a sign, and Matthew interpreted this as
referrin=
g
> to a material virgin, Mary, and a material Boy Child, Jesus Christ and
whe=
n
> Christians are told that Revelation says that a woman would give birth
to =
a
> boy child who would rule the world, they want to cast this as some sort
of=
> symbol for the church, even though this is not at all the interpretation
> from the OT to Matthew.
>
> BA: Otherwise, we stick to the words themselves, to tell us what the
> meaning is. =A0To do otherwise is to pick and choose according not to
> God's meaning, but our own imposition upon His word.
>
> AB: =A0I am trying to warn you against glomming on to the passage as
read,=
> pulling it away from the Bible, and only comparing it to Fox News, CNN,
or=
> your favorite paper, or some Science article. =A0That misses key steps
and=
> you, and others, are set up for the mistakes that the Pharisees made and
> which you should know better than to do, because you can see how things
> turned out for them.
>
> - All Bad
>
> On May 22, 6:27 am, "All Bad" <AllBad_notrea...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I agree with you that the prophecies do mean something. I disagree
with
> > you
> > on what they mean. Biblically, insisting on your private
interpretation =
is
> > a recipe for disaster, as evidenced by the Pharisees.
>
> > Here Isaiah 40 apparently saying that the earth will be flattened
before=
> > the
> > Messiah!
>
> > "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of
t=
he
> > LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley
> > shall
> > be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the
crook=
ed
> > shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: And the glory of
the=
> > LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the
mou=
th
> > of the LORD hath spoken it."
>
> > Yet Luke 3:2-6 shows that this prophesy refers to John preaching
>
> > Just because the prophecy says the earth is flattened or the moon
turns =
to
> > blood, it does not mean that the earth will turn flat or the moon will
> > turn
> > to blood. Peter pointed that out. Why must you be heedless?
>
> > - All Bad
>
> > "Bob" <RobertAr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
>
>news:bda49f73-9743-481a-afe9-d03370952a8f@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > There is nothing in what I said about The Revelation that is
> > "private." How else can one read the scriptures except in such a way
> > that the words, as written, mean something? Baha'i interpretations of
> > The Rev are so far removed from the text that the text becomes
> > irrelevant to the interpretation.
>
> > The difficulty with understanding The Revelation lies not in any
> > symbolism or allegory, but rather, with the fact that the visions are
> > of a future, which visions only recently have been seen to fit the
> > discovered facts of science, and the developments in society.
>
> > To be sure, the visions of a seven-headed dragon seem far fetched, at
> > first. But they are visions of reality as seen in the world of
> > spirit, translated into tem****al and physical terms. That is why
> > something like "a mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea,"
> > must have seemed impossible 150 years ago, but now is clearly a vision
> > of a future event, described in the best terms available to the
> > writer. (Google for near earth asteroids!)
>
> > Some of the events foretold continue to mystify us, but at the swift
> > pace of technology and social transformation, we can be assured that
> > they will unfold in the due course of time.
>
> > All that said, the vital im****tance of The Revelation is to put us on
> > notice that, no matter how much grain (wealth) we store away, the Lord
> > may well say to each of us, this very night, your soul may be required
> > of you.
>
> > It puts us on notice that huge cataclysms are "soon" to occur, where
> > "soon" might mean a few years, or more than a century. But the pace
> > of events is quickening, as indeed the first "pangs of childbirth" are
> > already evident in the world.
>
> > It warns us to take refuge--- not in the mountains, but in Jesus, the
> > surest and only refuge we have.
>
> > And always this for Baha'is: when you see the first world government
> > being established, beware. This is most assuredly not to be
> > celebrated, although for a time it will seem that a utopian order has
> > blessed the earth. The impostor will seize the world, and not long
> > after, his empty utopian promises will prove bankrupt, and the very
> > worst era of history will lure many into Hell.
>
> > Look not for the forthcoming world government, but rather, for the one
> > that follows after it. Only then will "God With Us" rule the world,
> > and forever.
>
> > On May 20, 9:07 pm, "All Bad" <AllBad_notrea...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > wrote:
>
> > > There is a passage in Second Peter that reads, "Knowing this first,
th=
at
> > > no
> > > prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the
> > > prophecy
> > > came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake
as
> > > they
> > > were moved by the Holy Ghost."
>
> > > With that in mind, prophecies in the Old Testament were interpreted
as=
> > > fufilled in the Gospel, and this gives us insight into how the
> > > prophecies
> > > of
> > > Revleation might be fulfilled. Unless your interpretations, that the
> > > prophecies be fulfilled literally, are sup****ted by scripture, they
ar=
e
> > > simply private interpretations, and fallable.
>
> > > Joel
>
> ...
>
> read more =BB- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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