Re: Why was Jesus crucified?

Mordecai wrote:
> 
> cactus wrote:
> 
>> Mordecai wrote:
>>> cactus wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mordecai wrote:
>>>>> saint7peter@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 12, 9:22 pm, Robert Epstein <vze25...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>>> saint7pe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
>>>>>>>> On May 12, 10:05 am, Robert Epstein <vze25...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Foolish," "inaccurate" and "anti-semite" may be insulting, but
they are
>>>>>>>>> not racial insults.
>>>>>>>> This is just a typical example of the old switcheroo, at which
modern
>>>>>>>> Jews are so expert.  They commit the crime and then get someone
else
>>>>>>>> to do the time.  Not anymore, Upstein.  We see through all your
>>>>>>>> tricks.  The gig is up.
>>>>>>>> In other words, racism is inherent in the Jewish worldview, and
so
>>>>>>>> Jews have always been the ones crying the loudest about "anti-
>>>>>>>> semitism."  It is a trick, a diversion, a deflection from their
own
>>>>>>>> misdeeds by projecting them onto others.
>>>>>>> You must have a very amnesiac view of history.  Try reality
sometime; I
>>>>>>> know it's not for sissies, but it's a good tonic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>> Whose reality?  As rewritten Orwellian style by your kind?  I don't
>>>>>> think so.
>>>>> Umm ... Reality could be defined when your expectations of reality
turn out to
>>>>> be wrong - and you are forced to change your opinion.
>>>>> It is a simplistic definition but eminently usable - as in turning
from what you
>>>>> know is false ...
>>>>> If your old ideas are "going to give the wrong results" your new
ideas are at
>>>>> least going to be "possible" rather than predetermined to be wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have addressed this with you several times.
>>>>> You keep making statements which are untrue and I merely pointed out
that they
>>>>> were untrue and this could be tested.
>>>>> Upon testing (which I did) - I discovered that your ideas and
expectations and
>>>>> truth were ... false.
>>>>> And then I asked "What now?"
>>>>>
>>>>> So what do you do when your expectations about "what is real" turns
out to be
>>>>> false?
>>>>> Do you keep hold of ideas which inevitably and invariantly are
provably
>>>>> incorrect?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I have never pj****nik alter his views base on their rightness or
>>>> wrongness.  The only thing that seems to change them is his momentary
>>>> brain chemistry and the latest mythos he reads.
>>>>
>>> Ah no - he is learning though he does not realize it.
>>>
>>> If you know someone who has a traumatic spinal injury such as soft
tissue damage in a
>>> car accident - the body responds short term ... medium term and long
term.
>>> Short term - the body tightens an area to prevent movement and give
the body a chance
>>> to recover. (approx 48 hours)
>>> Medium term - the body continues to prevents certain movements which
hurt, and adapts
>>> to what the body sees as a permanent disability. (approx six months)
>>> Long term, the body creates another posture which encompassed the
refusal of the body
>>> to use the injured area ... even if it has later recovered.
>>>
>>> In changing into the long term position, the body goes through one or
a series of
>>> massive changes to the way you move so that the "forbidden movement"
is encompassed
>>> into the very essence of the way you move. Your entire body is
effected as every
>>> single movement requires differences.  It is in this crisis where you
LEARN another
>>> way to move.
>>> And in the crisis, everything you do is somehow "wrong" and  gives you
pain.
>>>
>>> This is true both with the normal progression of the degeneration of
the spine, and
>>> also when you restore movement in an otherwise "permanent" injury
pattern.
>>> As I can testify as I recovered  from  25% permanent disability.  You
have to learn
>>> how to move again ...
>>> But alas, as I am the only one who has recovered - then you really
have to take my
>>> word for things :-(
>>> After all, "permanent" is a legal term used by doctors to say "no
recovery is
>>> possible" and so recovery is indeed ... unusual to say the least. Not
quite
>>> unprecedented but pretty close to it!
>>>
>>> The crisis within the body requires you to literally "reprogram" the
motor cortex -
>>> which is the interface between the brain and the body.
>>> Consider it as the sub process of the brain which controls movement.
>>> And when you relearn how to move - either in the instinctive way, or
in the
>>> counterintuitive way of recovery, your entire body changes.
>>>
>>> The crisis is the change to all the ways you have preciously done
things.
>>>
>>> Likewise, Peter is being shown that his ideas are incorrect and he has
to get to a
>>> crisis point and change.
>>> Like the physical changes in the body, so also in the mental picture
of the way the
>>> universe works, it takes time to change EVERYTHING.
>>>
>>> It is not yet  time to judge him as the crisis has not yet arrived.
>>> He is trying to work out how to keep as much of his ideas as possible,
change the
>>> least amount - get the world back on course.
>>> That is NORMAL, INSTINCTIVE and as far as I can tell, the most logical
way to approach
>>> even learning, let alone changing.
>>>
>>> I do take exceptions to some posters who - when presented with proof
and given time to
>>> change ... taken carefully to the crisis point and confronted - wimp
out.
>>> These enter a fantasy realm. If you prefer, a self induced delusion or
insanity - and
>>> I have no methodology to dealing with such a decision.
>>>
>>> Peter has a long way to go.
>>> And it is way too soon to presume what the outcome is going to be.
>>> But I can assure you he IS learning ... and most of the learning is
not on the
>>> intellectual level of the mind.
>>>
>> Wow, that was an eye-opener!  Well done.  I congratulate you on your
>> recovery and your ability to talk about it.  I know how difficult it is
>> to do what you did.  I have lived with mobility impaired people, and it
>> is amazing what they go through. I especially appreciate the personal
>> insight.
>>
>> I hope you are right about pj.  I'd love to resume the interesting
>> conversations we had ealier.
>>
>> Regards
>>
> 
> I also hope I am right about PJ - but this was all inherent in his
desire to learn about his
> father's religion.
> The moment he did that, he tried to view his father's religion within
his OWN language
> (religion, culture) ... but unfortunately, his desire REQUIRED speaking
in our language to
> be understood.
> Ergo this conflict was an inevitable outcome of his original choice,
which I mentioned to
> him at the time in my own way. He was required to subject himself to
exposure to our
> language.
> And thus would challenge his own religion, outlook and the way he looks
at the universe.
> 
> He does not like what he has found because it challenges his own current
ideas.
> The more he learns, the more this will happen.
> 
> It took me five years ... and this after I had tried (and failed) to
learn Hebrew ... two
> different ulpans - a year in Israel ... but my inability to correctly
hear and interpret
> sounds makes learning languages almost impossible to me :-(
> Another by-product of some people with autism or Asperger's ...though it
also effects others
> who have neither condition. The inability to differentiate between
foreground and background
> noise.
> For those who have this condition try "the listening program." It helps
... but is not a
> cure. And I found it too late to help me whilst I tried to learn anyway.
> 
> I am well aware of what PJ is going through but it is HIS battle - not
mine.
> He can win, lose or draw ... his victory, not mine.
> 
> Knowledge of what he is attempting - and the battle he is fighting
within himself does not
> help him, me or you.
> But I can say, wait - and see. As the outcome is not yet decided.
> 
> He himself set himself a task worthy to be attempted and completed. It
is not a light task,
> not a simple task and the outcome is not  what he thinks it will be, and
I know that I have
> no idea what the outcome will be.
> Perchance the outcome is that he will be able to take the goodness and
rightness of Judaism
> to the culture he has been sent to ... rather than his knowledge to us
as he thinks at the
> present time?  And hopefully expose the elements of Judaism which are
... man made and I can
> assure you that in any religion at any time, there will be bits like
that!
> 
> But all of this is speculation.

We shall see...

> 
> As for a discussion - I am more than happy to discuss ideas with anyone.
> I might not have answers - just ideas on how to look at things.
> Which is why I do not ... contend ... I present ideas, not answers.
> This frustrates people as I am not really interested in debate. I have
no fixed opinion.
> But discussion, speculation? Oh I like that.
> 
> 
I worked too long in risk-based businesses to speculate.  But I do like 
rational, respectful discussion.


> --
> Mordecai!
> 
> When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
> When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality
is wrong, and
> reality is Never wrong.
> 
>