On May 6, 10:26=A0pm, "Yowie" <yowie9644.DIESPAM...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>...
> If I found incontrovertable proof that Jesus did not in fact die on the
> cross, i would still be amazed that there was incontrovertable proof
that
> Jesus existed.
I find Dr. Thiering's position convincing, if not incontrovertible,
because
she starts with two references in Josephus' Antiquities. Next, she
treats Slavonic Josephus, the 19 additional passages. Her view
is that they all are genuine, that Josephus Slavonic Josephus was the
first version of his Jewish War, written in the early 60's when
Josephus
was still friendly with the Christians and Jewish Christians.
Josephus' accounts of Jesus - all genuine?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/109
"Josephus' words in the first passage may be seen to mean
simply an aborted crucifixion, from which Jesus had escaped.
His reputation as someone who had immense influence with
many people is acknowledged. In the light of the second
passage, 'he was the Christ' need only mean that he used
the word as a title, claiming to be the descendant of David
who would restore the sacred king****p of David."
The Slavonic Josephus
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/3269
Amazing to me is the evidence from Slavonic Josephus that
Jesus had dealings with militancy. "In the same passage he
is said to have had 150 ministers. The Qumran community
were organised in 1000=92s, 100=92s, 50=92s and 10=92s. ( 11QT 57:1-5)."
Also, "at the end of the same passage, it is stated that Pilate
was bribed."
An issue overhanging our topic is the detection of Christian
alterations. Taking this fact into account, Dr. Thiering still
holds the opinion she has extracted correct history out of
Josephus.
So, I find Jesus Christ historical after all.
> I I then found incontrovertable proof that Jesus died onthe cross but it
w=
as
> for the Jews only, in one way I would be relieved. It would free me from
t=
he
> nagging guilt I feel whenever I feel I am not Christian enough - there
wou=
ld
> be no basis for the Christian religion and I could then choose to adopt
th=
e
> Jewish religion (which woudl then mean I was covered by the sacrifice,
btu=
> still had to hold all the Jewish laws) or I could just get on with life
> knowing that I was no longer subject to a whole bunch of quite silly
rules=
&
> regulations.
>...
To me this is too clever by half. Christian doctrine is firm
that Christ died for the sins of all men and women. This
was Paul's message. My own take is that the earliest
Christian evangelists were deceptive in that they knew
he was still alive after the crucifixion. The Pista Sophia,
a gnostic gospel, says he taught a secret doctrine for
11 years afterwards.
As for Jewish laws being silly, I don' take this attitude.
However, I don't follow them in my own life.
Does Christ represent the best in our higher nature?
I would like to define it so. Mystically, was he prefigured
in other religions such as in Buddha? I find the idea
attractive. In this perspective I simply overlook the
character shortcomings of both. (Buddha abandoned
his wife and child; Jesus lost emotional control with the
moneychangers.)
=2E..
David Christainsen
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