Yowie wrote:
> "Engineer" <invalid@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> news:aeGdnfgzBZmCK5rV4p2dnAA@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>> The Real Doctor wrote:
>>
>>> He Who Must No Be Named wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Real Doctor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> He Who Must No Be Named wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Without God there can be no morality. Do you agree?
>>>>> No. I know some extremely moral atheists and some
>>>>> extremely immoral theists.
>>>> Fyodor Dostoevsky agrees with me.
>>> Well good for him.
>> The accusation that without belief in gods there can be no
>> morality is an ancient slur against atheists that religionists
>> have kept trotting out for years. The idea that only living in
>> fear of a vengeful god stops us from being immoral is says in
>> effect that people are naturally mean and nasty to each other.
>> I have seen too many examples of people being nice to others
>> without being religious to buy that.
>>
>> In particular, the Christian system of morals (do good and you
>> will go to Heaven, do bad and you will go to Hell) is not moral.
>> It is self-serving. If you only pretend to be moral so that
>> you may obtain future comforts or avoid puture pain, how are you
>> any better than a well-contidioned lab rat? Quakerism teaches
>> a higher morality that this.
>>
>> As for the idea that one should go to the Bible for moral
>> guidance, here are some moral questions for those who
>> beleive such a thing:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Numbers 31:7-18
>>
>> 7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and
>> killed every man.
>>
>> 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took
>> all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder.
>>
>> 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as
>> well as all their camps.
>>
>> 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and
>> animals,
>>
>> 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar
>> the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains
>> of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.
>>
>> 13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community
>> went to meet them outside the camp.
>>
>> 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army--the commanders
>> of thousands and commanders of hundreds--who returned from
>> the battle.
>>
>> 15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them.
>>
>> 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the
>> means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what
>> happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people.
>>
>> 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept
>> with a man,
>>
>> 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept
>> with a man.
>>
>> QUESTION: Are these orders from God moral? Would you obey
>> these orders? If God himself told you face to face to kill
>> all of those little boys, would you do it?
>
> And would you "have for yourself" (ie, have *** with) the virgins,
whether
> or not you yourself are already married, whether or not they consent,
and no
> matter what their age was?
>
> Deuteronomy 22:23-24
>
> 23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married
and he
> sleeps with her,
>
> 24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them
to
> death-the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help,
and
> the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil
from
> among you.
>
> Even if she was held at gunpoint and told to be quiet 'or else'?
>
> Deuteronomy 22:27-29
>
> 27 for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the
betrothed
> girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
>
> 28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married
and
> rapes her and they are discovered,
>
> 29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. [c] He must
marry
> the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as
he
> lives.
>
> Would you sell you daughter to her rapist?
No, but perhaps to a circus. I married her off and a few weeks later
she came back. Her complaint and reason for leaving was that her hubby
snored loudly...
poor guy....
Rod
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