"Engineer" <invalid@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:aeGdnfgzBZmCK5rV4p2dnAA@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> The Real Doctor wrote:
>
>> He Who Must No Be Named wrote:
>>
>>> The Real Doctor wrote:
>>>
>>>> He Who Must No Be Named wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Without God there can be no morality. Do you agree?
>>>>
>>>> No. I know some extremely moral atheists and some
>>>> extremely immoral theists.
>>>
>>> Fyodor Dostoevsky agrees with me.
>>
>> Well good for him.
>
> The accusation that without belief in gods there can be no
> morality is an ancient slur against atheists that religionists
> have kept trotting out for years. The idea that only living in
> fear of a vengeful god stops us from being immoral is says in
> effect that people are naturally mean and nasty to each other.
> I have seen too many examples of people being nice to others
> without being religious to buy that.
>
> In particular, the Christian system of morals (do good and you
> will go to Heaven, do bad and you will go to Hell) is not moral.
> It is self-serving. If you only pretend to be moral so that
> you may obtain future comforts or avoid puture pain, how are you
> any better than a well-contidioned lab rat? Quakerism teaches
> a higher morality that this.
>
> As for the idea that one should go to the Bible for moral
> guidance, here are some moral questions for those who
> beleive such a thing:
<snip>
>
> Numbers 31:7-18
>
> 7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and
> killed every man.
>
> 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took
> all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder.
>
> 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as
> well as all their camps.
>
> 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and
> animals,
>
> 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar
> the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains
> of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.
>
> 13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community
> went to meet them outside the camp.
>
> 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army--the commanders
> of thousands and commanders of hundreds--who returned from
> the battle.
>
> 15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them.
>
> 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the
> means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what
> happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people.
>
> 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept
> with a man,
>
> 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept
> with a man.
>
> QUESTION: Are these orders from God moral? Would you obey
> these orders? If God himself told you face to face to kill
> all of those little boys, would you do it?
And would you "have for yourself" (ie, have *** with) the virgins, whether
or not you yourself are already married, whether or not they consent, and
no
matter what their age was?
Deuteronomy 22:23-24
23 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and
he
sleeps with her,
24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to
death-the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and
the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil
from
among you.
Even if she was held at gunpoint and told to be quiet 'or else'?
Deuteronomy 22:27-29
27 for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the
betrothed
girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.
28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and
rapes her and they are discovered,
29 he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. [c] He must
marry
the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he
lives.
Would you sell you daughter to her rapist?
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