On Apr 20, 9:10=A0pm, Allan Svensson <allan...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> =A0 The great tribulation began nearly two thousands years ago
>
Well obviously you don't employ a literal reading of Scripture.
>
> They
>
Why be so vague? Dispensationalism.
>.have preached that Jesus first will come invisibly
??????? I think now you are referring to Jehovah's false Witnesses.
>
> for the
> world and take God's people to heaven. After that the Antichrist
> appears, and the great tribulation will begin and last for seven
> years. Then Jesus shall come to judge the world. This is only a
> theory and it does not agree with the Bible.
>
> As it was in the days of Noah, so also it will be in the days of
> the Son of Man. When Noah went into the ark, the flood came
> and destroyed all. Likewise, as it was in the days of Lot. The
> day Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from
> the heaven and destroyed all. According to those things, it will
> be in the day the Son of Man is revealed. Luke 17:26-30.
>
> When Noah went into the ark, it was no delay of seven years
> before the flood came. The flood came the same day. On the day
> Lot went out from Sodom, it was no delay of seven years before
> the fire fell above Sodom. It happened the same day. Of this we
> can understand, at the same day Jesus comes to take his people
> to heaven, then God's judgement comes at once above the
> ungodly world.
>
> Of this we can understand, at the same day Jesus comes to take
> his people to heaven, then God's judgement comes at once above
> the ungodly world. In Matt. 24:29-30 Jesus says clearly that he
> shall come after the tribulation. That Jesus shall come before
> the great tribulation and before the Antichrist appears, it is a
> false doctrine. It does not agree with what the Bible teaches.
>
A small problem in your analysis. These passages do NOT refer to what
is commonly termed, the Rapture. You will notice in each incident, it
is the unrighteous who are swept away and the righteous who are left
to inherit. This is not the Pauline doctrine of the rapture of the
Church. Rather, these passages refer to the 2nd Advent where the
unrighteous (who are still living) are cast into Sheol or the Grave
(Hades). The sheep or the wheat, i.e. the righteous, are left on
earth to enter into Christ's millennial kingdom wherein the nation
Israel inherits the promises of God.
>
> It cannot be more than one first resurrection, and it will take
> place when Jesus comes.
>
Why not? Lazarus and many others were raised by Christ and the
disciples. The resurrection spoken of in 1 Thes 4 is not the
resurrection of the dead in Rev 20:15-20. How can it be?
>
> This resurrection which is described
> in 1 Thess. 4:13-17 and in 1 Cor. 15:23, 51-53, it is the same
> resurrection as in Rev. 20:4-6.
No it aint. First off, where is you analysis? Anyone can come along
and draw such grandious conclusions, but where is the scriptural
sup****t?
Also, Rev 20 takes place after Rev 19, wherein the resurrected Bride
of Christ has already readied herself. That means that the Church
somewhere in time before Rev 20:4ff has to have been raptured/
resurrected.
Again, you must prove a consistency in these passages.
>
>There in verse 4, we can see that
> those which have been under the Antichrist's regime, and who
> had not wor****pped the beast nor its image, and had not received
> the mark of the beast on their forehead or on their hands, they
> have part in the first resurrection. Then Jesus comes to take his
> people to heaven.
>
I don't read "first" anywhere in the text. Care to provide your
sup****t for this conclusion? In point of fact, v 5 speaks of yet
another resurrection AFTER the resurrection of v. 4. In context,
those who are resurrected in v. 4 are the elect who died after chapter
5. These are the Tribulation saints, not the Church saints. The
Church Age saints are the Bride of Christ who, again, have already
been resurrected and rewarded in Rev 19. Care to explain that?
>
> The great tribulation will not last only for seven years.
>
Sure it will. First off, it is not a segment of time separated or
independent of a previous segment of history. In point of fact, it is
the last seven of seven of Daniel's prophecy. Christ noted this in Mt
24. The Great Tribulation, technically speaking, is only the last
half of Daniel's 70th week. It is so noted by the occasion of the
Antichrist committing the Desolation of Abomination in the restored
temple 3 1/2 years after making his "firm covenant" (referred to in
several other prophecies). This is what Jeremiah so designates as the
"Time of Jacob's Trouble." Christ calls it the "Great Tribulation,"
and Daniel himself calls it the "time of distress" (12:1). Zephaniah
speaks of it in the narrow definition of "The Day of the Lord." This
is when fully 2/3rds of the Jewish population will be killed (Zech
13:8-9; "many" Daniel 9:27; the 1/10th ****tion in Isa 6:13 speaks of
the believing remnant being purified; Eze 7 declares the day when the
wrath of the Lord is poured out on unbelieving Israel; cp Amos
5:18-20; Isa 2:6-21; Rev 12:13; Zeph 1:15-18; 3:11)
>
> It began
> nearly two thousands years ago. Satan and his churches have
> persecuted, tortured and murdered many millions of Christians.
> Can a tribulation become worse?
>
You've got a real problem here. In Daniel 9:24 the context is
defined.
1. ISRAEL, or "your {Daniel's) people and your holy city" (Jerusalem)
2. It is a period wherein Israel's rebellion will end (12:7)
3. Sin will cease.
4. The Atonement for iniquity will be completed
5. Everlasting righteousness will come to fruition
6. The sealing up of all prophecy and visions refers to the eternal
presence of Christ with His people.
7. New Jerusalem will dwell among men.
You make the capital mistake by drawing the unwarranted conclusion
that the Church has replaced the elect NATION of Israel. The Church
is nowhere to be found in the OT as Paul clearly declares under his
explanation of the "mystery," or that which had not heretofore been
disclosed to either men or angels.
>
>
> The churches have not been better, only changed the tactic.
> When the devil did not succeed in exterminating the Christians
> by mass murde
>
You mean the Jews, don't you? Even if you were referring to 1st or
2nd century persecution of Christians, only comparatively few were
killed. Later scholar****p has discovered that those killed in the
Colosseum were in the hundreds, not the thousands. Can you compare
that to say, Hitler's persecution of the Jews? And who is now
struggling to keep from being once again so persecuted/annihilated?
Is it not Israel? Are you so naive of world events? Look at the
entire record of the UN's referendums and you will find that fully
2/3rd's of them are related specifically to Israel. Israel yet
remains the focal point of the world. After the Church is removed,
Israel will have only the Antichrist to turn to.
>
>, then he tries with seduction. With speaking
> about "love" and "Christian unity" he entices them to apostasy
> from the Lord. The e***enicalism is a fi****ng tackle of the
> Catholic Church to ensnare the Christians into the Catholicism.
>
Now you're rambling. Now you've set aside any biblical agenda for
your own.
>
> All sorts of free church members become enticed to apostasy
> from the Lord. They believe that their free churches are
> assemblies of God, and they do as their leaders say. The church
> is the greatest deceit in the history of the world, and the "love"
> of the church are only religious fornication and seduction.
>
I think here we need to say, "Harold Camping!" Boy, did he go off the
deep end. Again, you have pulled all your reference out of their
context and read into them you presumed plan of the ages.
>
> If we observe the context in Matt. 24:4-27, then we see that it
> was during the great tribulation and before Jesus' arrival, that
> these false Christs and false prophets would appear.
>
But this passage does not speak of the Church Age. In point of fact,
this is before the upper room discourse (Jn 13-16) where Christ first
speaks of the age wherein the Holy Spirit would come (Pentecost) to
indwell all believers permanently until the day of redemption. The
disciples at the beginning of the chapter were asking when the
"KINGDOM" age was to come. They asked that question from a Jewish
context and Christ answered it in a Jewish context. "Noah's" day is
illustrative of when all unbelievers are taken away and the purified
"Israel of God" inherits the Abrahamic, the Davidic, the Palestinian
(land) and the New Covenants.
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