Re: For Arminians and Calvinists.....

Matthew Johnson <matthew_member@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
news:C75B3552-1265-BF4C-4518-F85A00C1DAF6@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

> So much for one example of "time of their trouble", drowning. But
> there are other examples, too. And in at least some of these examples,
> you cannot save them by force, as you describe here. 

But you would try.  You wouldn't leave them hanging because
you have some lingering doubt about what's going on in
their hearts.  You wouldn't say "Well, I'd like to help you,
I truly would, but I'm not sure your motives are pure,
so I'm just going to sit here and watch you die instead."


>>> then I will just ask if you will show that same kind of mercy of
>>> rescuing
>>> them if they were capable of making mature decisions?
>>
>>This is the point where, if we were sitting across the table,
>>I would stand up and break your nose.  Some statements are 
>>just too cheeky to brook.  
> 
> Yes, there are such statements. But what is mysterious is why you
> think this was one of them.

It wouldn't be mysterious to anyone who has children.  Of _course_
I would (and have) shown my adult children the same mercy I
showed them as infants.  I quit my job, gave up any hope of
a tenure track position, lived on Mac&Cheese and Ramen noodles
for a year, so I could devote a year to getting my son off
heroin.  All quite against his will, all with him fighting me
every step of the way.  But I'm his dad, and I'm determined to
save his life at whatever cost.  Even though he was 22 years
old at the time.

I went from the second-highest academic rank to the very
lowest, and I have little hope of changing that now, at my
age.  I've spent 10's of thousands of dollars, and ruined my
chance at a decent retirement, just to get a stubborn,
willful child on his feet.  And I'd do more.  Heck, I'd
even undergo crucifixion if it would save him. (Which is
the point.  God would certainly do no less, and, just as I
did, He would do it _in spite of_ His children's contrary
will.)

This cheeky SOB called my parental devotion into question?
If we were face-to-face, he'd be choking on his own blood by
now.

And in case anyone cares:  He's been clean for over two years
now, occasionally works and is looking for a decent full-time
job.  So we probably got the job done.

Bart

-- 
Cheerfully resisting change since 1959.


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