Dear James:
Please see below.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James" <bireda@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.religion.christian
To: "Gary McNees" <gkmcnees@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: God knows your future. ...But does he?
> >"Gary McNees" <gkmcnees@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>>Re: God knows your future. ...But does he?
>
>>
>>
>>"Bart Goddard" <goddardb@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>news:3f4267bb$1_1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Matthew Johnson <Matthew_member@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>>> news:3f4211fd$3_1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>
>>>>>> God is like a weather forecaster - he watches clouds and
>>>>>> wind, and knows what the weather the following day or
>>>>>> week will be. He just knows it, he doesn't predestinate it.
>>>>>
>>>>>This fails because we don't just attribute to God omniscience,
>>>>>but also omnipotence.
>>>>
>>>> We do, of course, but that does not cause it to 'fail'. Omnipotence
>>>> means He _can_ do anything (except, as Thomas Aquinas pointed out,
>>>> achieve contradiction), it does not say He _does_ do everything.
>>>
>>> "Omnipotent" really means "All" powerful, and we take this to
>>> mean that God does "all".
>>
>>No, You take it to mean that God does all. But what do you do about His
>>statements that He doesn't do all? I think your problem is that you
don't
>>have the categories perhaps to differentiate between these things. God
is
>>the ULTIMATE or REMOTE cause of all things, true. But He is NOT the
>>efficient or immediate cause of all things.
>>
>>As you state below, God sustains the universe, hence without His
upholding
>>by His word, everything would cease to exist, including Satan, and every
>>particle.
>>
>>
>>
>>But we must make these differentiations or else get contradictions to
>>Scripture. For example, we read, James 1:13 Let no one say when he is
>>tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor
>>does
>>He Himself tempt anyone.
>>
>>
>>
>>It seems to me, that in this passage God differentiates between Himself
>>doing a thing from Him giving the power to a creature to do the very
same
>>thing. God does not tempt at all, but certainly He maintains the
existence
>>of creatures who do tempt.
>>
>>> Without His continual attention, each
>>> particle in the universe would cease to exist.
>>
>>
>>
>>Gary www.faithalone.org
>
>
> Gary,
>
> The Bible clearly tells us that God does not ALWAYS know all things.
> Some time God chooses not to know certain things for whatever His
> reasons. For example Ge 18:20,21,
No, James, the Bible does not ever tell us that God is not omniscient. You
need to understand that the Bible uses accommodative language, it
sometimes
speaks of
God as though He were human. This is called "anthropomorphism."
To see this just take notice of the very verse you quote below.
> "Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so
> great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down
Taking language as you do would mean that God is local, that is, that He
is
not omnipresent.
Scripture teaches that God is omnipresent, just as it teaches that God is
omniscient.
When God asked Adam, "where art thou," do you really imagine that HE did
not
know where
Adam was? (Gen. 3:9).
Some moderns, called open theists, claim that God cannot know free will
acts. Also that God who does not change, actually changes. They deduce
this
using such reasoning as you do citing Gen. 18.
But if one does not understand that God uses accommodative language to us,
then one is left with a God who not only does not know all future things,
but as you above suggest He does not even know past things. Such a god is
not God.
> and see if what
> they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I
> will know."" (NIV)
>
> Clearly, God did not know the full scope of the goings on in Sodom and
> Gomorrah at that time, except what He had heard.
No, this is not at all clear. You just read the passage as a child would.
If
your god does not know even the past or the present, much less the future,
then he should not be called God.
> So He was going to
> "go down" and find out the facts for Himself, then, He said, "I will
> know".
>
> Thus genuine wor****ppers of God accept His written word, the Holy
> Bible, as "truth" (Joh 17:17), and let it decide their religious
> doctrines.
Isaiah 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times,
what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all
that
I please.
All prophecy of future events proves that God knows the future, and future
free choices of all.
God even tells us that this is a requirement for one to be God.
Isaiah 41:23a Show the things that are to come hereafter, That we may
know
that you are gods;
A requirement of "a god," is that he be able to tell what is to come
hereafter. Now a god which can't even know the past or present is no God
at
all. But this is what you profess as your god.
Would to God that you actually do what you state above!
Colossians 1:16 For by Him [Christ] all things were created that are in
heaven and
that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or
principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.
This single verse demolishes your entire theological system, but of course
you do not believe it. To nullify the truth of this verse you casually add
the word "other," making God a liar, and tells us the verse means:by Him
[Christ] ALL [other] THINGS WERE CREATED…"
This you do with all truths which proclaim that the Lord Jesus Christ is
YHWH. There are hundreds of passages in Scripture which state that the
Lord
Jesus Christ is God, but you deny all of them.
Gary http://www.faithalone.org/
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