In article <819E18C8-5840-AE95-E865-6EFE751AF3D7@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>, Bart
Goddard
says...
>Helmut Richter <hhr-m@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>news:356A4764-0D7C-408E-5DAB-732E426296DF@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> The language of "giving" and "offering" is not alien to Scripture,
>> e.g.
>Of course not. The difficulty is, as always, what people
>think "giving" and "offering" accomplishes. Lutheran wor****p
>is God speaking to us, and then us repeating back to Him
>what He has said. Neo-evangelical wor****p consists almost
>entirely of trying to please God without listening to Him.
Whereas Bart's wor****p consists entirely of saying He is pleased without
even
trying to please Him?
>> Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a
>> sacrifice of praise -- the fruit of lips that confess his name.
>> (Heb.13:15)
>>
>> Interestingly, the liturgy of the Lutheran Church I belong to takes up
>> this terminology mainly as introduction to the Creed
>
>Of course. Speaking the Creed is saying back to God what He has said.
Well, perhaps that is true of _speaking_ the Creed. But merely speaking it
is
completely worthless. It is NOT what God commanded. God commanded
_confessing_
the Creed. This is much more than 'speaking'.
>> I feel that this kind of "institutionalising"
>> is a weak point in Lutheran tradition. ....This is certainly
>> correct but leaves away all dynamic
>> aspects of the Church: the mutual love, the common prayer, the mutual
>> admonition, ...
>
>Most Lutherans consider this our strong point.
They do? They consider leaving away mutual love and common prayer "a
strong
point"?
>Scripture uses
>the word "dynamic" in a number of places,
Where? No translation I use even _has_ the word. Nor can I find it in RSV,
NIV,
NAS, ASV, NKJV. What bizarre translation is Bart using?
>but it always refers
>to the Word. Never to preachers, the Church, prayer, or anything
>else (with one exception where a _false_ preacher is called "dynamic".)
>It's a hard and unchangable point of Lutheran doctrine that anything
>which claims it is of the Spirit but which is outside Word and
>Sacrament is of the Devil.
If it is "hard and unchangable[sic]", then Bart should be able to point to
where
it is in the Book of Concord. Then Bart will be able to say from the
bottom of
his heart that Helmut is not a true Lutheran, because he contradicts the
Book
the Lutherans _really_ follow.
>The Holy Spirit has promised to act
>through Word and Sacrament only,
False.
> and it is gross heresy to think
>that we can devise better methods of saving people than the Spirit.
True, but Luther did this himself when he denied the seven sacraments,
reducing
them to only two.
[snip]
--
-----------------------------
Subducat se sibi ut haereat Deo
Quidquid boni habet tribuat illi a quo factus est
(Sanctus Aurelius Augustinus, Ser. 96)
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