Hi Suzanne,
> I honestly have no idea what rule I've changed.
This conversation has not been going well, in my opinion. I have wanted a
break, and expressed that wish to you several times.
It sounds more and more like mystical hogwash to me. My beliefs on the
subject are quite specific and explainable. When I said "Without that
individuality it can hardly be called a soul, it is spirit." you answer:
>Do you have any quotes to sup****t this view?
Now I need to find out what dictionary 'Abdu'l- Baha consulted when he
differentiated between souls and spirits.
If you don't know the difference, and can't see it when I talk about it,
well, I guess we will have to call it a disagreement.
To me, the difference between the rational soul and spirit is as easy to
identify as the difference between1967 Jack Daniel's Black Label and
water.
But that isn't your interest, and that is not what you want to talk about.
You: > God has a different system
> for those souls to progress than for us.
And although I know exactly what I mean when I say a soul progresses
towards
reunion with God I can only tell that what I mean is not what you mean. I
don't know what you mean.
I have been trying to take a break from this conversation, not because I
am
scared of it, not because it doesn't interest me, not because I don't have
anything to say, but because it makes me uncomfortable.
I feel as though a very specific, beautiful, inspirational, compelling,
sacrificial life-blood of humanity's experience on earth is distilled to
mediums and ghosts. Our sacrifices on earth have meaning, and that
meaning
is our prayer, is our offering to God for having lived. If that offering
is
not up to our expectations or the expectations of those around us, our
families and friends, oh well. God isn't disappointed, but He isn't going
to be more merciful just because we are more pitiful, is He? He isn't
going
to offer the least the most, is He? Should He? Those are the good
questions.
Those who made the sacrifices to elevate the stature of the entire human
race and amazed themselves and all around the world with the specialized
powers of God they learned to command are none-the-worse condemned to
commune with those who couldn't decide if the soul was a spirit or not,
and
needed a quote.
So please let me move on without insinuating that I am in over my head. I
just feel as though this talk cheapens spirit itself.
--Kent
"Suzanne" <sb.gerstner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:n6qdnUcz6ZL-Sb3VnZ2dnUVZ_oKhnZ2d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Kent:
>
> Are you saying that the soul
>> pre-exists conception?
>
> Dear Kent,
>
> No, I am saying that soul comes into being at the moment of
> conception. It associates itself with the body at the moment but that
> association is not a physical one. The soul doesn't enter or exit the
> body. 'Abdu'l-Baha says:
>
> "The spirit never entered this body... no, the spirit is connected
> with the body, as this light is with this mirror."
> (`Abdu'l-Baha: Some Answered Questions, Page: 239)
>
> Kent:
>
> Is there something similar to reincarnation you are
>> presuming?
>
> No.
>
> Kent:
>
> If not, then how can you assert that a soul, after passing on,
>> existed before conception
>
> I didn't. I did say that not all souls are born into this world. I
> meant that some souls are aborted or are lost through miscarriages.
> They obviously go straight to the next world without having all the
> tests and difficulties, the growth and development through this
> world. On the death of infants, 'Abdu'l-Baha says:
>
> "These infants are under the shadow of the favor of God; and as they
> have not committed any sin and are not soiled with the impurities of
> the world of nature, they are the centers of the manifestation of
> bounty, and the Eye of Compassion will be turned upon them."
> (`Abdu'l-Baha: Some Answered Questions, Page: 240)
>
> So my point is that, while most of develop our spirtual qualities
> through trying to put the teachings of God into practice in our lives,
> other souls go straight to the next world. God has a different system
> for those souls to progress than for us.
>
> Kent:
>
> "...and can pray for it's own progress after leaving
>> this world?"
>
> Because 'Abdu'l-Baha said that. I have quoted Him saying that
> repeatedly.
>
> Kent:
>
>> The truth is, I am not very interested in dogmatically presenting my
>> opinion. If you are interested, if I have a hearing ear, I have been
>> enjoying the conversation. But if you are changing the rules in
>> mid-discussion I will take my break.
>
> I honestly have no idea what rule I've changed.
>
> Kent:
>
>> The individuality of a soul is from this world. Without that
>> individuality
>> it can hardly be called a soul, it is spirit.
>
> Do you have any quotes to sup****t this view?
>
>
> To argue otherwise is either
>> predestination or reincarnation, or some other as-yet-unexplained
belief
>> system from Suzanne.
>
> Hopefully I've explained now what I meant.
>
>>
>> I doubt you believe this conversation takes place in English or Arabic,
>> right? Do you picture God smoking a cigar in a throne and we at His
feet
>> answering His questions?
>
> Are you trying to insult me? Obviously I have said from the beginning
> that the next world is another dimension and everything there is
> different.
>
> I don't know what happened for you to feeling and behaving so
> negatively towards me, but I don't find this very nice either.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Suzanne
>
>
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