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Religion > Bahai II > Re: The Soul
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Re: The Soul

by "Richard H. Gravelly" <rgravelly@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > May 5, 2008 at 03:07 PM

Yes, if he repents.  Who determines what is repentance?

Richard.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Suzanne" <sb.gerstner@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

> I have also heard the story regarding Mirza Yahya.  As I have not seen
the~=D4=EE

> Tablet or an authenticated Writing regarding it, I cannot use it as
> authority.

Hi Richard,

I was pretty sure that I had read this from an authorative source, but
I couldn't remember where.  I thought it was in Epistle to the Son the
of the Wolf.  However I found that it's in the Kitab-i-Aqdas,
according to the Synopsis and Codification:

19. Assurance of forgiveness to Mirza Yahya
should he repent

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 163)

And according to the introduction by the Universal House of Justice:

"...and finally,
His magnanimous assurance to a perfidious brother who had
afflicted Him with such anguish, that an "ever-forgiving, all-
bounteous"
God would forgive him his iniquities were he
only to repent --

(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 15)

Strangely, I don't see the passage from Baha'u'llah.  I'm sure it's
phrased in a way that I just don't see it, because I'm sure that
Shoghi Effendi and the Universal House of Justice know what they're
talking about.

And this assurance of God's pardon to Mirza Yahya was also also
alluded to in a couple of letters written on behalf of the Guardian,
and then generalised as a principle:

"Regarding Mr. ... question about the Covenant-breakers, Bah=E1'u'll=E1h
and the Master in many places and very emphatically have told us to
shun entirely all Covenant-breakers as they are afflicted with what we
might try and define as a contagious spiritual disease; they have also
told us, however, to pray for them. These souls are not lost forever.
In the Aqdas, Bah=E1'u'll=E1h says that God will forgive Mirza Yahya if h
e
repents. It follows, therefore, that God will forgive any soul if he
repents. Most of them don't want to repent, unfortunately. If the
leaders can be forgiven it goes without saying that their followers
can also be forgiven. "Also, it has nothing to do with unity in the
Cause; if a man cuts a cancer out of his body to preserve his health
and very life, no one would suggest that for the sake of unity it
should be reintroduced into the otherwise healthy organism. On the
contrary, what was once a part of him has so radically changed as to
have become a poison."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual
believer, November 28, 1944: Principles of Bah=E1'=ED Administration, pp.
22-23)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 184)

So it seems clear that covenant breakers can potentially repent and
return to God.  It's just that most choose not to -- at least not in
this life.  I would definitely say that slowly but surely they do die
a spiritual death.  The thing is, though, God (or Baha'u'llah) has the
power to quicken the dead to new life.  It's just a matter of them
becoming humble and turning to him.  This may happen in the next world
-- "the world of vision"...where it seems like we all come to
understand the truth:

 "...the mysteries of which man is heedless in this earthly world,
those he will discover in the heavenly world, and there will he be
informed of the secret of truth."
(`Abdu'l-Baha:  Baha'i World Faith*, Page: 367)

At that point a soul may very well repent and turn to God, even if
they opposed the Manifestation of God in this life.

Best wishes,

Suzanne
 




 95 Posts in Topic:
The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-04-29 21:21:10 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-04-29 21:57:19 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-04-30 08:21:12 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-04-30 06:32:01 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-01 07:21:56 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-01 07:22:52 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-01 21:48:27 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-01 02:11:14 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-01 07:04:35 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-02 01:28:09 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-02 05:22:37 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-02 13:27:19 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-05 15:07:21 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-06 07:40:34 
Re: The Soul
"Susan Maneck"   2008-05-02 12:36:35 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-02 15:09:17 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-03 07:46:06 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-02 15:19:42 
Re: The Soul
"Susan Maneck"   2008-05-02 18:10:49 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-03 07:49:38 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-03 09:09:51 
Re: The Soul
"Susan Maneck"   2008-05-03 11:17:21 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-03 15:09:23 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-03 22:23:11 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-03 22:23:11 
Re: The Soul
Paul Bartlett <bartlet  2008-05-03 19:21:41 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-03 22:30:31 
Re: The Soul
"Susan Maneck"   2008-05-03 18:55:11 
Re: The Soul
"Susan Maneck"   2008-05-03 23:06:50 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-04 08:15:58 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-03 23:21:55 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-03 23:40:53 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-04 00:39:25 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-04 09:25:58 
Re: The Soul
"Susan Maneck"   2008-05-04 10:15:42 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-04 15:12:11 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-04 17:38:58 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-05 08:26:16 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-06 07:42:06 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-06 07:54:05 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-06 11:21:48 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-06 15:10:34 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-06 15:39:52 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-06 20:47:45 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-06-25 22:50:57 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-04 12:34:19 
Re: The Soul
"Susan Maneck"   2008-05-04 17:18:09 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-05 02:41:02 
Re: The Soul
macleod@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-05 21:25:48 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-06 00:17:30 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-06 07:03:34 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-06 06:55:30 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-06 08:06:50 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-06 08:17:18 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-06 09:00:50 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-06 10:45:17 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-06 13:15:59 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-06 15:35:56 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-06 13:36:28 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-06 13:39:29 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-06 15:42:02 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-07 07:29:54 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-07 05:28:17 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-07 08:52:13 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-07 09:10:10 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-07 07:52:59 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-07 11:33:36 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-07 16:24:10 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-07 14:36:38 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-08 07:00:31 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-08 04:47:30 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-08 08:22:49 
Re: The Soul
Paul Bartlett <bartlet  2008-05-06 17:18:12 
Re: The Soul
"Susan Maneck"   2008-05-06 19:35:17 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-07 15:55:32 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-06 21:22:27 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-07 04:42:54 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-07 07:17:59 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-06 21:29:04 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-07 02:58:42 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-07 04:48:05 
Re: The Soul
"Richard H. Gravelly  2008-05-07 07:25:39 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-07 02:58:42 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-07 05:33:22 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-07 05:37:55 
Re: The Soul
Paul Bartlett <bartlet  2008-05-07 15:32:20 
Re: The Soul
"Susan Maneck"   2008-05-07 21:59:02 
Re: The Soul
"Kent Johnson"   2008-05-09 07:52:34 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-07 22:57:32 
Re: The Soul
Paul Bartlett <bartlet  2008-05-08 16:38:43 
Re: The Soul
Paul Bartlett <bartlet  2008-05-08 16:44:54 
Re: The Soul
"Susan Maneck"   2008-05-08 15:49:37 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-08 14:40:54 
Re: The Soul
Suzanne <sb.gerstner@[  2008-05-09 00:52:30 
Re: The Soul
mike3 <mike4ty4@[EMAIL  2008-06-25 16:19:45 

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tan12V112 Mon Sep 8 11:30:21 CDT 2008.