On May 3, 12:46 pm, "Kent Johnson" <k...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> Hi Suzanne,
>
> My view about all these esoteric issues, soul, spirit, spirituality and
> metaphysics is that it is all too weird. The reason I am a Baha'i is
> because I can understand the Writings explananation without the weird
stuff.
Dear Kent,
There are many very practical down to earth subjects in the Writings
like the im****tance of good deeds and the equality of men and women,
etc. But there are also mystical Writings which do talk about things
which actually aren't the physical dimension of life but the spiritual
dimension, which you could say is esoteric. What's wrong with that?
There's plenty to interest people who are interested in all different
subjects from all different angles. Unity in diversity, eh?
Kent:
> I know what a soul is: it is a person's essence. <snip>
> In my opinion character has a lot to do with it, but of course that is
> conjecture based on what I believe is im****tant in the universe,
im****tant
> to me, im****tant to the rest of humanity.
What is character? There is personality, which is what is constructed
to manage the particular life cir***stances of an individual, and the
immortal soul, which, as Baha'u'llah says, no mind, however great, can
fathom. So it's not so simple or easy to understand.
Kent:
I can sup****t
> my understanding with quotes, however.
I would appreciate it.
Kent:
I believe the individuality of a
> soul is lost when that soul is not identifiable, and it can only be
> individually identifiable by what that soul accomplished while abiding
in
> the contingent realm.
Can you share a quote that says or implies this, please? If the
individuality is lost, then how can souls in the next world be
conscious of one another, and associate with one another, and enjoy
bonds of intimacy and fellow****p, and be of differing grades, as this
passage suggests?
"And now concerning thy question whether human souls continue to be
conscious one of another after their separation from the body. Know
thou that the souls of the people of Baha, who have entered and been
established within the Crimson Ark, shall associate and commune
intimately one with another, and shall be so closely associated in
their lives, their aspirations, their aims and strivings as to be even
as one soul. They are indeed the ones who are well-informed, who are
keen-sighted, and who are endued with understanding. Thus hath it
been decreed by Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.
The people of Baha, who are the inmates of the Ark of God, are,
one and all, well aware of one another's state and condition, and are
united in the bonds of intimacy and fellow****p. Such a state,
however, must depend upon their faith and their conduct. They that are
of the same grade and station are fully aware of one another's
capacity, character, accomplishments and merits. They that are of a
lower grade, however, are incapable of comprehending adequately the
station, or of estimating the merits, of those that rank above them.
Each shall receive his share from thy Lord.
(Baha'u'llah: Gleanings, Pages: 169-170)
Kent:
> The worlds of God are numberless, and I have experienced many
> of them.
Really? Which worlds, other than this one and the world of sleep,
have you experienced?
Suzanne:
> > That doesn't seem like the sort of scenario a
> > loving, compassionate, ever-forgiving God would create.
Kent:
>
> So why is there misery?
Suffering is of two kinds. The one is natural and is needed so that
people will free themselves from attachments to this world and turn to
the world of God. It's the caue of awakening and mindfulness. The
other cause is because we have free will and both a higher and lower
nature. Many people choose to act from their lower nature and are
selfish, greedy and uncaring of others and they inflict a great deal
of suffering on others.
Kent:
> If memory serves, 'Abdu'l-Baha acceded that several interpretations of
that [Adam and Eve]
> story are true.
I wasn't speaking about the story per se, but was using 'Abdu'l-BAha's
example of looking at a story to see if made sense in terms of a
loving, caring God.
Suzanne:
> > It isn't something that
> > I could imagine from the God of Love that I know.
Kent:
>
> That seems to me a dangerous line of thought, since so much in these
worlds
> is unjust, cruel and miserable.
I'm not sure what you see as being dangerous. I am truly not
advocating that people should act badly in this life and just hope for
the best in the next world. I certainly do believe that it's
im****tant to recognize the Manifestation of God and to follow His
teachings and develop their spiritual qualities. I just disagree with
you in terms of souls being able to initiate their own progress in the
next world, but I am using a quote which implies this to sup****t my
contention.
Suzanne:
> > develop more and more spiritual qualities it's like we have more and
> > more facets which can reflect various colors of the light of God.
Kent:
> I think we differ on what it means to "reflect ... the light of God". I
> think doing so requires specific, sustained and personally sacrificial
> deeds.
I agree with this. The spiritual qualities we develop in this life
can only be shown when they are put into practice in our lives.
Best wishes,
Suzanne
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