rogue wrote:
> On May 21, 8:27 pm, monkfish <monkfish@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> rogue wrote:
>> > On May 21, 7:02 am, monkfish <monkfish@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >> rogue wrote:
>> >> > On May 20, 11:56 am, "Carl" <sai...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >> >> In the following article, Dr. Francis Beckwith shows us the
>> >> >> Biblical doctrine of the Holy Trinity.
>>
>> >> >> PART I: THE DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY, GOD, AND THE DEITY OF THE
>> >> >> FATHER
>>
>> >> >> I. The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is part of every major
>> >> >> creed in the history of Christendom. It can be defined in the
>> >> >> following way: In the nature of the one God there are three
centers
>> >> >> of consciousness, which we call persons, and these three are
equal.
>> >> >> Though the term "trinity" is not found in the Bible, the doctrine
>> >> >> is nevertheless taught there. "Trinity" is merely the term
employed
>> >> >> by theologians and church historians in order to describe the
>> >> >> phenomena of God they find in the Bible.
>>
>> >> >> The doctrine of the Trinity is arrived at in much the same way as
a
>> >> >> scientific theory. A scientific theory, for the most part, is a
>> >> >> reasoned explanation of observed (or unobserved, in some cases)
>> >> >> phenomena in the natural world. Analogously, the doctrine of the
>> >> >> Trinity is a reasoned explanation of what we observe to be the
>> >> >> phenomena of God in the Bible. Church fathers, councils,
>> >> >> denominations, etc. have been so overwhelmed with the evidence
for
>> >> >> the trinity in the scripture that there has been a universal
>> >> >> creedal acknowledgement in church history. The argument behind
the
>> >> >> doctrine can be put this way:
>>
>> >> > JERRY
>> >> > CHUCK! Hey, CHUCK! Pay attention to this, you may learn
something!
>>
>> >> >> Premise 1: The Bible teaches that there is only one God.
>>
>> >> >> Premise 2: The Bible teaches that there are three distinct
>> >> >> personscalled God, known as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
>>
>> >> >> Conclusion: So, the three persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
-
>> >> >> are the one God.
>>
>> >> >> Let us take a look at how each premise is justified in the New
>> >> >> Testament.
>>
>> >> > JERRY
>> >> > See that? THAT is a proper syllogism at least in terms of
>> >> > structure. Now, it could be argued in terms of content whether or
>> >> > not premise TWO is correct ("Holy Spirit" for example could be a
>> >> > distinct personality or simply a quality of the one God or even
the
>> >> > claim that the bible teaches that there are three distinct persons
>> >> > called God, which is open to debate and the way trinitarians
choose
>> >> > to read into the text).
>>
>> >> > Those debates on the quality of premise two would affect the
outcome
>> >> > of the validity of the conclusion.
>>
>> >> > However, I hope you and Carl both note that nowhere does it say
that
>> >> > one must believe in the Trinity to be saved, since there are no
>> >> > verses in the bible to sup****t that claim, as I've demonstrated to
>> >> > you before. ;-)
>>
>> >> What do you have to believe in to be saved?
>>
>> > Good question! Why don't you tell me, Mr. Christian? ;-)
>>
>> You sound so knowledgeable of the Bible.
>> What does it say you have to believe in to be saved?
>>
>> --
>> monkfish
>
> JERRY
> I am knowledgeable on the bible, but I don't play games. I've told
> you my position. Do you wish to test it?
My position is that even you can be saved
by the grace of God.
--
monkfish
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