lynx wrote:
> **Rowland Croucher** wrote:
>
>> From: Athanasius <dcn_athanas...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:14:36 -0700 (PDT)
>> Local: Wed, Apr 30 2008 12:14 pm
>> Subject: Re: The Wall
>> <>
>> > I do not think that Rowland believes in "Hell" as a place of pain and
>> separation. Nor do I think Rowland believes any humans go to such a
>> "hell" anyway. So in his mind he is not leading anyone there, you
>> see.
>>
>> ***
>>
>> I read this today, and I can't think of a better response:
>>
>> Questioner, to Billy Graham on his last visit to Harvard:
>>
>> 'Since Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh
>> to the Father but by me" doesn't that mean people from other religions
>> - Jews and the rest - are going to hell?'
>>
>> Billy replied,'I'm sure glad God is the judge of people's hearts and
>> not me! And I trust God to decide those questions justly and
mercifully.'
>>
>> The student was disappointed and pressed further, 'Well, what do you
>> think God will decide?'
>>
>> Graham demurred, 'Well, God doesn't really ask my advice on those
>> matters.'
>
> As usual you have not addressed the issue, which is.. (a) whether YOU
> believe in Hell 'as a place of pain and separation' from God. ie. the
> existence and purpose of it... and.. (b) whether YOU believe ANY 'humans
> go to such a "hell" anyway'. C'mon Rowland- speak up! For someone who
> is a Baptist minister with several theological qualifications, written
> umpteen books, given umpteen lectures, and has a website with zillions
> of views, those two simple questions should not be too hard.
Ah... the quest for simple questions and simple answers! In another
thread here somewhere the issue of Jesus speaking in parables was
raised. Jesus in the gospels only anwered directly three questions he
was asked. Why was that? 'Cos like any good teacher he wanted his
students to think through their own faith-responses. Their faith would
be child-like, not childish...
Anyway:
In my experience there are four broad views held by people who claim to
be Christians about hell. The whole subject is problematical,
particularly for the second and third groups. The first and fourth
categories have more clear-cut positions.
But first, here's one statement of the problem, in the preface to
Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion chapter 8: 'What's wrong with
religion? Why be so hostile?' (p. 279).
"Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -
living in the sky - who watches everything you do, every minute of every
day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not
want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special
place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where
he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and
cry forever and ever 'til the end of time... But he loves you!" (George
Carlin).
1. Some *sectarians* I've met actually believe that only they - or
perhaps one or two other groups very much like them - will go to heaven.
The majority of the human race will suffer eternal torment - including
babies, mad people, and those who've never heard of Christ. These people
preach about hell 'without tears in their voice', and even with hatred,
seeming to give the impression they're happy these other infidels -
including many who call themselves Christians, but are apostate - will
spend eternity in hell, without reprieve.
2. The second group - *conservative* or evangelical Christians - believe
the majority of the human race is destined for hell, but may take
seriously the Romans 2:15 suggestion that some who follow the law
('written on their hearts/conscience') will 'perhaps be excused' on the
day of judgment - together with young children, mad people, and maybe
others totally ignorant of the Christian gospel. There is another
significant sub-group who believe in some form of 'conditional
immortality' or 'annihilationism': the souls of those who resist God
actually 'perish', cease to exist in the after-life. My hunch is that
this doctrine is partly driven by the horrible notion of everlasting
torment or torture being incompatible with the will of a loving God.
John Stott belongs there somewhere.
3. The third group - I'll call them *progressive* Christians - believe
that yes, there is a hell, but we mustn't take literalistic black and
white (or cold/hot) categories of existence into the spirit-world. Hell
and heaven are an eternal experiencing of the attitudes we've cultivated
in this life. Richard Rohr ('Things Hidden: Scripture as Spirituality')
seems to hold a view roughly like this.
4. *Universalists* believe God's love and grace can't be finally
conquered by unbelief or rebellion. All will be saved. 'As in Adam all
die, so in Christ shall all be made alive' (1 Corinthians 15:22) is
their text. Every human dies; every human is loved unconditionally by
God and will experience bliss forever. (However, moving to an
'ultra-liberal' extreme, I know a Christian minister who doesn't believe
in the after-life; I know another who affirms reincarnation).
Now, they're very broad categories, and there are more sub-categories
within each than I've mentioned.
But that'll do for now... I'll be back when my ISP fixes its newsgroup
server and fewer people demand my time with problems!!!
--
Shalom/Salaam/Pax! Rowland Croucher
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/
(20,000 articles 4000 humor)
Blogs - http://rowlandsblogs.blogspot.com/
Justice for Dawn Rowan - http://dawnrowansaga.blogspot.com/
Funny Jokes and Pics - http://funnyjokesnpics.blogspot.com/
|
