On May 5, 10:15=A0pm, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 18:24:49 -0700 (PDT), Feather
> <feat...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> spake thusly:
>
> Let me say this up front...
>
> I don't care if you like the way that I said what
> I said in this response, cuss words and all.
> I do not hold back when faced with such idiocy
> and I felt that you deserved them!
LOL....you *are* a card, Dave.
>
> If you want to pretend that you're so offended
> by it, that you just couldn't respond, to intentionally
> avoid dealing with the facts I presented, then please,
> go right ahead. =A0That's about what I expect from you.
Too bad ;o) . . .cuz here I am, Dave. LOL
>
> And if you respond at all, then I expect that you will
> continue to play a game of dodge ball and not answer
> directly and specifically what I said.
No, you're the one adding to my words and *creating* something to
dodge.
>
> I also expect that you will seek to lie and avoid admitting
> to what you said and to try to make it seem as if you said
> the opposite of what we both know you said, to try to
> escape the truth, as is usual for you, while you pretend
> to be on the side of good. =A0But as I have told you on
> the phone before, you need to stop pretending that
> you're not playing a game of dodge ball and start
> answering for your comments, in an honest fa****on!
I have never *not* been honest, Dave. Please keep that in mind, will
you?
>
> So here's the bottom line...
>
> You answer any way you want! =A0But if it's anything
> but honest, then I am not interested!
You're the one giving rules when *I* am the one who originally asked
the question *without* rules? This is *dishonest* Dave, and methinks
ye project *muchly*.
>
> >On May 5, 2:02=A0pm, Pastor Dave
> ><ananias917_@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> >> On Mon, 5 May 2008 08:28:49 -0700 (PDT),
> >> Feather <feat...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> spake thusly:
>
> >> >QUESTION:
>
> >> >What did Jesus mean when He told His disciples:
>
> >> >Matthew 10:27
> >> >What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight;
> >> >what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the
> >> >roofs.
>
> >> >I would like to hear your take on that verse.
>
> >> When you can show me some who walked
> >> with Christ today, then I will answer.
> >>=A0Christ told them many things in private.
>
> >Paul experienced Jesus on the Damascus Road.
> >He was, apparently, the only one who heard
> >Him say "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me,"
> >though the people traveling with him knew
> >something was happening.
>
> Which has nothing to do with what you asked,
> nor with what I said. =A0And so, you begin your
> game, by trying to play dodge ball! =A0And don't
> bother denying it! =A0You like to play the innocent,
> but you are far from it!
Not at all.
IF Jesus could appear to not only SAUL/PAUL, but also SPEAK to Ananias
after His resurrection and ascension, then why NOT to people today -
as long as (as I stated) it's in ACCORD WITH WHAT WE ALREADY HAVE?
>
> >> What we have now, today, is His written word
> >> to us and if people are dumb enough to believe
> >> that some guy has something new that gets
> >> added to the Bible, then that is their foolishness!
>
> >Agreed.
>
> No, you don't agree at all! =A0You merely said this,
> to try to pacify me, as is demonstrated below!
No, Dave.
There are NO new revelations from God; we KNOW this.
Joel 2: 28 states:
"And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions."
People today DO have dreams that are prophetic, people today DO have
visions that are the same.
This is not to say that it's NEW. It IS to say that GOD can and DOES
work His will among His people and that it is always in accordance
with the Scriptures.
>
> >My point is that if Jesus spoke to Paul on the
> >Damascus Road, why wouldn't He choose to
> >speak to someone today? =A0As long as it is in
> >accord with what we already have (SCRIPTURE)
> >- then there's no problem with it, correct?
>
> Isn't it nice when you can ignore the point and
> the Bible, Feather, as you have just done?!
I didn't ignore the point, you created a NEW point, which wasn't, as
far as I could tell, pertinent to our original conversation.
>
> 1) You ignored the part where YOU asked about
> =A0 =A0 HIS DISCIPLES. =A0We today, are not those people
> =A0 =A0 that walked with Him and the passage was about
> =A0 =A0 Him talking to His disciples, that were standing
> =A0 =A0 there in front of Him!
And He also prayed for those who weren't His yet, in John 17. What
does that tell us? He also said He had sheep of another fold, so what
does *that* mean if not those who were and are yet to become His?
>
> 2) You ignored the part where; If God was inspiring
> =A0 =A0 people today in that way, then that means that
> =A0 =A0 Scripture is getting added to and books should
> =A0 =A0 be added to the Bible! =A0That is because you love
> =A0 =A0 to avoid the point, to appear innocent!
NO, Dave. ANY prophecy, ANY dream, ANY revelation from God today HAS
to be in accordance with what we already have, and CANNOT therefore be
ADDED to what we have since it's already there.
>
> 3) If it is "in accord with the Bible", then it is NOT
> =A0 =A0 "something new", but someone repeating what
> =A0 =A0 the Bible already says and therefore, means that
> =A0 =A0 it is no different than reading the Bible and we
> =A0 =A0 don't need them to tell us what the Bible already
> =A0 =A0 says, nor are they "prophets"! =A0And that was also
> =A0 =A0 my point, which you also ignored!
No, Dave, I wasn't ignoring it, I was *agreeing* with you that it
cannot be new. SOMETIMES, in some areas of the world, people do NOT
have Bibles. They are NOT ALLOWED by the laws that govern some of
those lands (China comes to mind as one place, for example).
Therefore, the spoken word is all they DO have and that is when this
becomes appropriate. There are also those who for whatever reasons,
cannot READ.
I DO believe GOD speaks to people today, in accordance with HIS WORD
and what we have been given. Not everyone can read and understand.
Sometimes God gives understanding and wisdom to those the world would
consider ignorant and dumb, because HE is glorified by such actions.
>
> The truth here is, that you are trying to dodge the issue!
NO, Dave. YOU created an issue that wasn't even brought up.
>
> >> But you know, I guess when you're a Futurist, you
> >> absolutely need things to be added to the Bible,
> >> because you have to believe it's all about you now
> >> and if the Bible was completed in the 1st century,
> >> that is proof that it isn't all about your time, since
> >> if it were, more Scripture would be getting added
> >> by God even today!
>
> >I wasn't aware that this conversation had anything
> >to do with Futurism or Preterism, Dave?
>
> Yes, you most certainly were! =A0How is it that you can
> think that people are saying things that we need to
> follow today, that aren't already written in the Bible
> and yet, not be thinking within the Futurist doctrine?!
See above about ignorant people who cannot read.
>
> Oh wait, you said, "in accord with"! =A0Oh gee dear,
> who gets to decide that, huh?! =A0Wait, let me guess!
> IT IS FUTURISTS, RIGHT?!?
No, Dave, it's what is already in Scripture that makes that decision.
>
> The truth is, that YOU, FEATHER, want to leave the
> door open for more things to be added on top of
> the Bible, which could ONLY mean that it is about us,
> TODAY and that is Futurism in a nutshell!
No, Dave. YOU are projecting something on to me that had nothing to do
with the original question.
YOU are the one obsessed with futurism vs. preterism. Not me.
>
> There is NO WAY IN HELL that someone is going to
> be talking about; "What Jesus Christ told me!" and
> not be talking about Futurism (How it is all about us,
> today and what is going to happen TO US, today!)
> and you damn well know it!!!
Jesus Christ is the Same, Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow. HOW can He
bring something we've never heard of to the one given the vision or
dream? He cannot.
>
> "It's all about us, today and we will listen to those
> who claim that 'The end is coming and this is when!'".
NO MAN KNOWS THE TIME OR HOUR. We have so many hints, so many signs,
so many things to show us the POSSIBILITIES, but NO ONE KNOWS FOR
SURE. ONLY God, and ONLY Jesus, now that He is with God on high.
>
> And don't even bother denying that's what happens,
> because I will flat out call you a liar and you will
> flat out be one and you flat out know it, damn it!!!
OK, name ONE place where I have stated a DATE.
>
> The truth is, that Futurists are nothing more than
> lying hypocrites, who claim not to follow men and
> then do exactly that! =A0And even if they don't pick
> one man, they are eager to watch any and every
> supposedly "Christian" program that tells them that
> the day's newscast is "The fulfillment of the prophecies
> of the Bible, before our very eyes, because ONLY TODAY
> are of all the pieces in place, so that it could be possible
> that they could be fulfilled!". =A0And they run right up to
> anyone who says this! =A0And these news groups are filled
> with those who are pissed off that the whole Christian
> world doesn't think that they are the ones who have
> all of the answers!
I don't watch TV preachers, Dave. I don't attend end times seminars,
and I don't read much of the end times books anymore.
I DO read my Bible. I DO read a lot of novels that have nothing to do
with end times or Christianity, for that matter. I DO read a lot of
textbooks on nature. But I don't spend a lot of time TILTING AT
WINDMILLS and creating issues where none need be.
If GOD is Sovereign over ALL things, then why worry about tomorrow or
yesterday? HE has it all under His control.
>
> So please, don't bother wasting my time with your
> garbage that says that you aren't like that and yet,
> instead of addressing what I responded to in this post,
> which was a guy claiming that he had some new
> special revelation from Christ that hadn't been heard
> before, instead, you decided to pretend that the Bible
> sup****ted the idea of what he is doing and yet,
OK, WHERE did Lawrence (was it Lawrence?) claim to have a NEW
revelation? I didn't see it. Perhaps you can SHOW me through a GOOGLE
link directly to his post? I will search later if you cannot. I would
like to see that, because if he said he had a new revelation from God,
I completely MISSED it.
> now,
> you wish to pretend you're some innocent who is
> asking an innocent question and is not doing that,
> when if you weren't, you would not have had any
> reason whatsoever, to respond to my response to
> him, completely ignoring what I wrote! =A0PUHLEASE!!!
I was merely asking a question. If Lawrence said that, then of course
he's wrong, Dave.
>
> >> But hey, let's all think that we should follow
> >> men today, while hypocritically saying that's
> >> not what we're doing and yet, all of those
> >> so called "prophets" are leading how many
> >> cults, that we hypocritically call cults, while
> >> at the same time, leaving the possibility open
> >> that maybe God is sharing something new
> >> with us today, because as Futurists, we need
> >> that, right?!
>
> >Whoa. =A0This has nothing to do with that topic,
> >but instead, about how Jesus might speak to
> >people today.
>
> BULL!!! =A0This is about you defending the idea that
> Jesus is speaking to people today and giving them
> new revelations, that aren't in the Bible! =A0That was
> the subject and you damn well know it! =A0So cut
> the crap!!!
NO, Dave, I did NOT "know" that. I saw something you had written and
it triggered a response in the form of a question. Nothing more,
nothing less. If Lawrence (or whoever it was) said that, then I would
like to see it.
>
> And if you think I'm too stupid to see that, then you
> are too stupid to talk to! =A0As I have said many times,
> bull**** does not smell like roses, just because you
> typed it, instead of saying it face to face, which you
> know damn well you wouldn't do! =A0Nor does trying
> to claim you weren't responding to the subject,
> while at the same time trying to dance around it,
> to try to avoid being nailed by it, wash either!!!
>
> The truth is, you have two choices!
>
> 1) The Bible is complete as it is.
AGREED
>
> 2) More is being added by God, through men,
> =A0 =A0 who of course, just happen to say that it's
> =A0 =A0 all about us today, in our time today!
DISAGREE. Otherwise the Book of Mormon and the New World Translation
of the Holy Scriptures would be inspired. Egads, thank God, they
aren't.
>
> But hey, even if it's #2, that doesn't mean that
> we're saying that we'll add to the Bible, to make
> it all about us today, right Feather?! =A0No, not at all!
>
> And no, of course that's not what you're saying, right?!
>
> And no, you would never seek to put aside the Bible,
> in favor of a doctrine that favors you today, right?!
>
> >> All I see here, is hypocrisy and a lack of willingness
> >> to acknowledge when things were said and to whom
> >> they were said.
>
> >> You started your response by asking...
>
> >> "What did Jesus mean when He told His disciples:"
>
> >> Now whom did He tell? =A0HIS DISCIPLES! =A0That does
> >> not mean that He added the words, "And hey, you
> >> guys in the 21st century, I'm really talking to you
> >> and ignoring them, because it's really all about you!".
>
> >Exactly. =A0I didn't say anything about futurism or preterism.
> >I *did* say "What did Jesus mean when He told his disciples. . ."
>
> No, you wanted me to think that "disciples" meant
> even us today and yet, if you had actually addressed
> what I actually said, would be forced to admit that
> yes, indeed, He was speaking to the disciples that
> were standing there, right in front of Him!
>
> And now feather, let's all watch your bull**** fly!
>
> >NOW, if we who are followers of Christ today aren't
> >also called out as His disciples, then what are we?
>
> And there it is! =A0The bull**** that does start to fly!
>
> So you claim that you were talking about His disciples
> then and now, as I knew you would, claim that it means
> us today!
OK, then let's throw out the following as it would apply to us today,
because Jesus was talking to the people of that day and not to all who
would believe in Him:
Matthew 7:12
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for
this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Luke 6: 37
"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you
will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."
By your logic, then, ANYTHING in Scripture that Jesus TOLD HIS
DISCIPLES AND THOSE WHO WERE SURROUNDING HIM, ONLY apply to THEM in
that day?
<snipped the rest of the repetetive stuff, as I've already answered
you>
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