"Athanasius" <dcn_athanasius@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:622e6c35-43f0-4f66-aabe-d81fd6514743@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
May 2, 12:32 pm, **Rowland Croucher**
<rccroucher@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> From: Athanasius <dcn_athanas...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:14:36 -0700 (PDT)
> Local: Wed, Apr 30 2008 12:14 pm
> Subject: Re: The Wall
> <>
> > I do not think that Rowland believes in "Hell" as a place of pain and
> separation. Nor do I think Rowland believes any humans go to such a
> "hell" anyway. So in his mind he is not leading anyone there, you
> see.
>
> ***
>
> I read this today, and I can't think of a better response:
>
> Questioner, to Billy Graham on his last visit to Harvard:
I can think of quite a few better responses rather than Billy's one
here. Of course you are quoting someone that -now- believes everyone
is going to heaven and is "saved". So how one can bring him into a
discussion of the Lord's teaching of hell is beyond me. (Billy was
twice baptized by the way, only one more to go). :-)
Listen here to confirm Billy is now a Universalist.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxlXy6bLH0
Chuck:
I did that Athan, and I didn't hear him say anything about universalism,
or
deny there was a hell. What I heard him say was that he believed God
calls
many "out of" other religions and into His kingdom. I heard him say he
believes this can happen without the person really understanding enough to
put into a clear statement what has happened to them. I heard him say he
believes such people need not even know the name "Jesus Christ" to in
their
hearts know the Son of God, the mercy and grace of God, and true
repentance
from their sins.
I once heard a story about a Catholic missionary who was preaching the
Gospel in China, I think it was, and was shocked when a young Buddist monk
told him he recognized the person the missionary was talking about,
because
he's had a vision of Him in a dream, and had been praying to Him ever
since.
Now I don't have any way of confirming the story, but it seems to me it's
possibly true at least. And if it's possible that God could have His
converts waiting to be discipled by the next Christian missionary to come
along, having already saved them directly, so to speak, and now needing
only
a spiritual mentor to come alongside and help them in their Christian
walk,
then how is Billy Graham a "Universalist" for simply saying he believes
what
is possible actually happens?
Athanasius:
Of course Rowland being a universalist as well -would- quote Billy.
Chuck:
Rowland actually is a universalist, having expressly stated his denial
that
a place of eternal punishment for the wicked exists. Billy Graham has, to
my knowledge, done nothing like what Rowland has done. And I've got no
dog
in this hunt. Billy Graham is just another one of thousands of preachers
of
the Gospel of Jesus Christ to me, albeit a very successful one. My
interest
here is in not letting Rowland tar another's reputation with his own.
Billy
Graham has about as much in common doctrinally with Rowland Croucher as I
have in common, golf talent wise, with Tiger Woods. Me and Tiger both hit
the same size and color ball with sticks shaped roughly like tire irons.
After that, the similarities between us are hard to find! Same with Billy
and Rowland, I think.
Athanasius:
Akin to telling everyone they can be any religion they choose to be,
want 4 wives, become a Mormon or Muslim. Want no God and no morals
become a Buddhist. Want to have thousands of gods and wor****p cows,
become a Hindu, for in their minds all will be saved and in heaven
anyway.
"Its Church Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it. Its Church
Jim, but not as we know it, not as we know it, Jim!" (Doctor to
Captain Kirk).
Another video of the same, but I do not agree with the written
rhetoric necessarily:
http://www.inmyvideos.com/billy-graham-denies-jesus
Chuck:
Pretty much the same video on two different websites, Athan. Still no
"smoking gun" here.
Here is what is expressed on the "Statement of Faith" page of the Billy
Graham Evangelistic Association webpage, and I'm pretty sure it accurately
expressed Graham's personal beliefs:
"The Bible to be the infallible Word of God, that it is His holy and
inspired Word, and that it is of supreme and final authority"
"That all men everywhere are lost and face the judgment of God, and need
to
come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ through His shed blood on the
cross."
Given those two statements, and taking them as making literally true
statements, unless you can find Billy Graham saying he believes all come
to
a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, what you've got here isn't really all
that strong a case for him being a universalist like Rowland is; and I
think
the man deserves the benefit of the doubt after what he's done with his
life. I certainly wouldn't go around accusing him of a heresy that
strikes
at the very heart of the traditional Christian faith on such flimsy
evidence, given the context of how God has used him for so many years to
bring so many to, if not into the Kingdom of God.
God bless
Chuck Stamford
|
