Mark T wrote:
> "lynx" <none@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote;
>
>
>>> Who / what is a "Christian minister"????
>>>
>>> 1 Peter 2:9 "You are a royal priesthood and a priestly kingdom,"
>>>
>>> Revelation 5:10, "Through your blood you have made us into priests and
>>> kings."
>>>
>> I find it amusing that you quote the bible to sup****t your arguments,
but
>> when others do, you deny the authority of the bible.
>>
>
> I've also quoted from one book of the bible that is a forgery and
another
> that is an apocalypse ... but that's what the priesthood of all
believers is
> built upon.
>
Whatever. Your position is untenable. You can't on the one hand use
bible verses to sup****t your position, or in any way a basis for
argument, and on the other deny others doing the same.
>
>> Ministers/Priests are supposed to 'shepherd the flock'.
>>
>
> .... not fleece them like a tv evangelist. ;-)
>
>
> > They're supposed
>
>> to teach, instruct, comfort those in need, perform religious and other
>> ceremonies, funerals, marriages, charitable works, etc., and be leaders
in
>> the Church. They are supposedly ordained by God for the purpose and
>> therefore (supposedly) have divine authority. Ordinary/lay ppl are not
so
>> ordained, and don't have divine authority to do those things. (You
can't
>> be married by an ordinary Church person).
>>
>
> The things that differentiate a layperson from a minister in the list
above
> are that the minister is the only one allowed to perform marriages ...
> unless the lay person is a celebrant. In some churches the minister is
also
> the only one able to do the magic trick of turning a bit of dry cracker
and
> grape juice into Jesus.
>
> SO ...
>
> Of what use is clergy in the real world where many people never get
married
> and do not attend communion / eucharist?
>
> The term "Christian minister" implies ministry and ministry means help.
>
> If you don't help then you don't minister.
>
> A Christian minister who does not help is not a minister at all.
>
> Christian teachers in Christian Community Schools were originally
supposed
> to be on a stipend as "ministers of the gospel". That would also have
meant
> that you could pay them less and it would be tax free.
>
> Chrisitian rock bands are also supposed to be a "ministry" but they
don't
> get tax free status either unless they are clergy.
>
>
>
Morkie.. you'll just have to stop this! you're beginning to sound
sensible!
However.. the crux of this debate is the authority of the Church and
it's representatives, from where that derives, it's dispensation, and
not the detail of what is involved. Jesus commissioned his disciples to
go froth and teach in his name:
Mat 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
The principle of divine authority was therefore established by the
founder of the Christian Church itself. But since you don't believe that
Jesus was God incarnate, you reject the principle of 'transference' of
divine authority. The reason the CC is in such a mess these days I would
suggest is because this principle has been abandoned. If we have
everyone following their own ideas, interpretation, and understanding,
from where do we get any 'knowledge' of what is 'right' or 'wrong'? But
if we accept the authority of the clergy in matters of divine
understanding, on the basis that they are anointed for the purpose, we
can know what to believe, and the Church can become stable, structured,
and orderly.
>> Possibly you would make a better minister than Rowland.
>>
>
> I could make more money by opening the Triple Tithe Temple and placing
it on
> tv across Australia. ;-)
>
I'm sure with your many amazing talents you would be very successful.
> Look at Athanasius (you'll have to stretch your neck upwards as he's
bigger
> than you). Will he ever become a millionaire through preaching the
gospel?
> No way! If "ble$$ing" means getting rich then God obviously doesn't
ble$$
> Deacons.
>
> Does Athanasius minister to / help others. Definitely. I've met the
giant.
> Rowland also ministers / helps. I've also met him. The two are
different.
> They both have their strengths and weaknesses. I could never mix with
some
> of the slimeballs that Rowland mixes with. A certain local Baptist
minister
> is one of the worst slimeballs I've ever met. I rate him lower than the
> hitman I met who worked for Abe Saffron. He had more morals that "Gibbo"
> (the subject of one of my poems.)
>
> The Apostle Paul could work a real job as a tentmaker AND evangelise the
> Roman empire without the aid of a congregation paying him tithes,
offerings,
> love gifts and perks but modern clergy find it far too difficult.
>
> What changed?
>
> If all clergy took a vow of poverty would we have any clergy left today?
>
>
This is another issue. The male brain (especially mine) is noted for
being able to only cope with one thing at a time.
--
rgds,
Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'I'm not young enough to know everything' -Oscar Wilde
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