On May 1, 6:57=A0am, Woody Brison <woody.bri...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> Under the subject heading "WHAT HAPPENED TO WOODY BRISON
> ON HIS MISSION?", heartforisr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Nancy) wrote:
>
> > About the Gospel having been "lost" and being again "restored" through
> > Joseph Smith, I'm reminded of what Jesus said in
> > =A0Matthew 16:18: =A0"I will build my church, and the gates of hell
shal=
l
> > not prevail against it."
>
> That's not a very good translation. The oldest manuscripts
> we have of that are in Greek, and they read:
>
> =A0 kago de soi lego hoti su ei Petros, kai epi taute
> =A0 te petra oikodomeso mou ten ekklesian, kai pulai
> =A0 hadou ou katisxusousin autes.
>
> Now, this isn't what Jesus said, he didn't speak in
> Greek to his Jewish disciples from Galilee, but this is
> the closest we can get at present. =A0It was probably
> translated into Greek from Aramaic.
>
> Going thru it word by word, with the meanings as given
> in Strongs Greek Dictionary - not meanings concocted by
> me, but meanings accepted by scholars - we get this:
>
> =A0 kai - and, also
> =A0 epi - at, on
> =A0 taute - towards this, of this
> =A0 te - the
> =A0 petra - a (mass of) rock
> =A0 oikodomeso - I will build, construct, confirm
> =A0 mou - of me
> =A0 ten - the (feminine)
> =A0 ekklesian - calling out, popular meeting, religious
> =A0 =A0 congregation, Jewish synagogue, Christian community
> =A0 kai - and, also
> =A0 pulai - gates
> =A0 hadou - unseen, ie. Hades, the place of departed souls
> =A0 ou - not
> =A0 katisxusousin - will overpower, force down
> =A0 autes - hers; personal possessive pronoun, singular
> =A0 =A0 feminine, genitive (means part of something)
>
> So, the King James translation isn't all that accurate.
> First off, the word "it" at the end isn't right at all. It
> should be translated as 'hers', or 'those that are hers'.
> It means those who belong to this Church that Jesus is
> going to gather together.
>
> Second, the word "prevail" isn't quite right either,
> because the Greek word there involves the idea of 'down'.
> It should be translated as 'keep down' or 'keep in prison',
> something like that.
>
> Third, the word "hell" there isn't right. It should be
> Hades, the world of the departed souls. =A0Hell is a place
> of punishment, or where the evil spirits dwell. =A0We picture
> the gates opening up and out comes this onslaught of evil,
> truly a nightmare, but that's not what Jesus was talking
> about here. =A0He was talking about the world of the dead,
> the place where all go after they die.
>
> The NIV does get the word Hades right. So does the
> American Standard Version and the NASB, as well as Young's
> Literal Translation and Darby's and Holman's; the New King
> James Version fixes this word, altho the 21st Century King
> James Version, a decade later, does not.
>
> Today's New International Version is even better than the
> NIV for this passage; it has "the gates of death". The
> Contem****ary English Version has "On this rock I will build
> my church, and death itself will not have any power over it."
> The New Century Version: "On this rock I will build my
> church, and the power of death will not be able to defeat
> it." =A0Worldwide English New Testament is similar.
>
> The old Reina-Valera Spanish translation follows St.
> Jerome's Latin translation; "las puertas del infierno".
> It was actually the transition from Latin that caused the
> problem. =A0For the Greek word Hades or 'adou', Jerome put
> "inferi", which means the underworld, cognate with
> inferior, meaning below. The ancients believed that the
> spirit world was underneath the earth. That was the old
> tradition; we are told that Christ descended below all
> things, meaning that after he came down to this world,
> and died, he descended on down to the spirit world. But
> later translators got this word confused with "inferno",
> burning hell.
>
> The gates of Hades mean that people who have died, who
> are in that place, cannot get out. They go in those gates
> but no one ever comes back out, you see. =A0Well, what
> Jesus is saying there is that the gates of Hades WILL NOT
> imprison those that belong to his Church.
>
> The reason, of course, is obvious; he's going to liberate
> them. He's going to call his Church forth from their
> graves, their bodies from the graves and their spirits
> from the world of the dead, put their spirits back in
> their bodies, and they will live again, just as he did
> himself.
>
> It has nothing to do with whether the Church was going
> to endure on the earth over the ages - it wasn't. The
> following passages show this:
>
> =A0 Acts 20:25-31 =A0 And now, behold, I know that ye all,
> =A0 among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God,
> =A0 shall see my face no more. Wherefore I take you to
> =A0 record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all
> =A0 men. For I have not shunned to declare unto you all
> =A0 the counsel of God. Take heed therefore unto
> =A0 yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the
> =A0 Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church
> =A0 of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
> =A0 For I know this, that after my departing shall
> =A0 grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the
> =A0 flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise,
> =A0 speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after
> =A0 them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space
> =A0 of three years I ceased not to warn every one night
> =A0 and day with tears.
>
> =A0 Isaiah 24:5 =A0 The earth also is defiled under the
> =A0 inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed
> =A0 the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the
> =A0 everlasting covenant.
>
> =A0 Isaiah 60:2 =A0 For, behold, the darkness shall cover
> =A0 the earth, and gross darkness the people...
>
> =A0 Amos 8:11-12 =A0 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord
> =A0 God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a
> =A0 famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of
> =A0 hearing the words of the Lord: And they shall wander
> =A0 from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
> =A0 they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the
> =A0 LORD, and shall not find it.
>
> =A0 1 Corinthians 1:10-13 =A0 Now I beseech you, brethren,
> =A0 by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all
> =A0 speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions
> =A0 among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together
> =A0 in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it
> =A0 hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by
> =A0 them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are
> =A0 contentions among you. Now this I say, that every one
> =A0 of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I
> =A0 of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided?
>
> =A0 1 Corinthians 11:18 =A0 For first of all, when ye come
> =A0 together in the church, I hear that there be divisions
> =A0 among you; and I partly believe it.
>
> If Paul had trouble accepting the divisions that were
> happening then, what would he have thought about the
> bishops of Rome and Constantinople excommunicating
> each other over the date of a feast? What would he
> have said about the number of Christian churches
> today? The fact that they are not united shows that
> the Church fell apart.
>
> =A0 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 =A0 Now we beseech you, brethren,
> =A0 by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our
> =A0 gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon
> =A0 shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit,
> =A0 nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the
> =A0 day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by
> =A0 any means: for that day shall not come, except there
> =A0 come a falling away first...
>
> =A0 John 18:36 =A0 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of
> =A0 this world...
>
> There are many other passages, but these are the most
> clear and easy to understand. The fact of the Great
> Apostacy is so huge and obvious that many people will
> not be able to see it at first. The Church fell apart
> because the Apostles were killed and it was left
> headless. =A0The bishops tried to direct it, but no
> bishop had authority to govern any other bishop, and
> so they squabbled and separated. Without the Apostles,
> there was no one to come and regulate things, correct
> the errors the bishops might make; and none of the
> bishops had the right or responsibility to receive
> revelation for the whole Church. =A0Some claim that Peter
> gave this authority to the bishop of Rome, but he
> didn't; (no one even knows who that bishop was) and the
> Apostle John was still alive, on the Isle of Patmos,
> after Peter was dead.
>
> Some claim that Peter gave this authority to the
> bishop of Rome, but he didn't; no one even knows who
> that bishop was, and the Apostle John was still alive,
> on the Isle of Patmos, after Peter was dead. =A0Some
> claim that this authority isn't necessary, but the
> Bible contradicts that in a dozen places. =A0Some claim
> this authority is shared by all believers... which,
> if true, would mean that I, being a believer, cannot
> be simply dismissed. Jesus has been seen again in
> modern times on the earth, and he has restored his
> Church, and all Christians are supposed to gather to
> it.
>
> Wood
Sounds like Woody is passing himself off as a ancient language
scholar. Jehovah's Witnesses who barely graduated from high school are
famous for this. But lets look at the evidence over the centuries.
Yes, it is time to do some reading. Foxe's Book of (True) Martyers
will give you a glimpse into the lifes of people who died for Jesus
Christ long before the con-artist joe smith and sidney rigdon came
around.
http://www.truthandgrace.com/bookfoxe.htm
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