Now if you're a real JW then why are you basically saying the same thing
I've been saying (different words) but then attacking me?
You said:
". . . So, the ones that left wanted the reward on their
own terms and their imagined times instead of Jehovah God's. So you
apostates are clearly the same way of thinking. Only you have to
decide whether it's because of time expectation's or some other lack
of love issue for Jesus Christ. . . ."
Well and good. I happen to agree. Same point I made in the very top of
this
message. Reread my original post for this thread. I have no objection to
others making the same point in their own words.
Only in another reply farther up, you acted like I said the opposite.
I'm sure many JWs are scratching their heads because although we seem to
agree on the folly of 1975 (in different words) such contradictions make
no
sense.
"curtjester1" <curtjester1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:9e00cb54-f9b7-4c1b-adae-392173a499f2@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
May 12, 11:43 am, "Sockie The Apostate" <Apost...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
> "curtjester1" <curtjest...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
>
news:7a37b2e5-12f7-41f7-81c5-74b78e831bfd@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > I was there, lived through it, and what you say is pure nonesense. It
> > was just like 1974 or 1976.
> > -------
>
> READ this you lying hypocrite:
>
Typical stuff, well-known already. Why you come off so anti, all of
you is so apparent. You don't consider the Lord's work a command,
much less worthy to undertake. I am sure none of you are active in
anything that has to do with Jesus. In your zeal to find reason not
to be associated with Jesus, you will spend all this time trying to
build up a case for a respectful life. The strategy is nothing new in
people for they do it in so many ways with so many other issues as
well.
None of your 'digging' has produced even one example of the Society
being the impetus of people selling their homes to do something they
had to do by them to be worthy. Many first century Christians did pull
up stakes and did sell their belongs just as Jesus prophesied because
they knew Jerusalem their home was going to be decimated in the
future. It may have been a hard****p, but it saved their lives. Many
of Witnesses today feel the same urgency and make sacrifices
monetarily to be in the Lord's work. What I have read in your
diggings is that the Society said some let their imaginations go in
the expectation that the fullfillment was a certainty. That obviously
is exactly what one should feel with "no man knowing the day or the
hour, nor the Son" So, the ones that left wanted the reward on their
own terms and their imagined times instead of Jehovah God's. So you
apostates are clearly the same way of thinking. Only you have to
decide whether it's because of time expectation's or some other lack
of love issue for Jesus Christ. Armageddon could happen tomorrow.
Who will be able to provide a good accounting to God and Jesus when
that day arrives?
CJ
> Of all the pre 1975 quotes this is probably the most popular, notice
> what is encouraged in the Kingdom Ministry a year prior to 1975 (monthly
> internal JW newsletter)
> Re****ts are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and
> planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the
> pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time
> remaining before the wicked world's end.-1 John 2:17
> Kingdom Ministry May 1974 pg.3
>
> http://www.jwfiles.com/1925-1975.htm
> "1925 and 1975 Dates That Live in Infamy"
> by William Jones
> Fifty years lay between 1925 and 1975 but in the span of half a century
> nothing has changed as to the way the Watchtower covers up their
> mistakes. The Watchtower actually blames the individual witness when
> their own prophecies fail. The Watchtower seeks to ****eld itself from
> blame for their false prophecies by saying the reader is the one who had
> 'false hopes' and 'inflated imaginations'. Over stepping the fact that
> they, the writers of the Watchtower are the ones who stirred up this
> fervor of Armageddon coming in the year of 1925 and 1975. Prior to each
> of the prophesied dates much was said about that coming year and what
> was to be expected. Much evidence was put before the reader to show
> proof of the Watchtower's dates being, not only factual but scriptural
> as well. No room was left for a the reader to make up his own mind,
> these are not suggested opinions that the witness can accept or not.
> This information is coming from God's sole channel of communication on
> earth, failure to listen and believe can cost the reader his life.
> In this article you will see the similarities between the prophecies of
> 1925 and those of 1975. Both deal with Armageddon and both failed, both
> started with a book written by the Society, both involved chronology.
> And in both cases when the prophecies failed the Watchtower blamed the
> individual witness saying it was they who read too much into what was
> written. Beginning with 1925 the Watchtower Society began to lay the
> ground work for course of action that would prove most successful when
> their prophecies fail. First we will examine in detail the events
> surrounding the 1925 prophecy then in the same manner the 1975 prophecy.
> In 1920 Joseph Rutherford the second President of the Watchtower Society
> wrote a book entitled Millions now Living Will Never Die He believed
> Armageddon was to come in 1925. He went to great lengths to prove this
> in the book he penned. Notice this quote from his book:
> "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of
> Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old...."
> Millions now Living Will Never Die pg. 89, 90
> It was taught that 1925 would mark the end of seventy jubilees of fifty
> years each since the Israelites had entered Canaan. (Lev. 25:1-12) A. D.
> Schroeder of the Governing Body states: "It was thought that then the
> remnant of Christ's anointed followers would go to heaven to be part of
> the Kingdom. And that the faithful men of old, such as Abraham, David
> and others, would be resurrected as princes to take over the government
> of the earth as part of God's kingdom." Now how was this information put
> forth to the witnesses who read this material? Was it said as a mere
> possibility or even a probability, or was it said with such authority
> that it was understood to be a certainty? Notice the following quotes:
> We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the
> dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning
> that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has
> placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility
> of erasure. What further evidence do we need?
> Using this same measuring line.... it is an easy matter to locate 1925,
> probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee.
> There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914.
> Watchtower May 15, 1922
> The chronology of present truth might be a mere happening if it were not
> for the repetitions in the two great cycles of 1845 and 2520 years,
> which take it out of the realm of chance and into that of certainty....
> where the agreements of dates and events come by the dozens, they cannot
> possibly be by chance, but must be by the design or plan of the only
> personal Being capable of such a plan - Jehovah himself; and the
> chronology itself must be right.
> It is on the basis of such and so many correspondencies - in
> accordance with the soundest laws known to science - that we affirm
> that, Scripturally, scientifically, and historically, present-truth
> chronology is correct beyond a doubt. Its reliability has been
> abundantly confirmed by the dates and events of 1874, 1914, and 1918.
> Present- truth chronology is a secure basis on which the consecrated
> child of God may endeavor to search out things to come.
> Watchtower June 15, 1922
> This chronology is not of man, but of God. Being of divine origin and
> divinely corroborated, present-truth chronology stands in a class by
> itself, absolutely and unqualifiedly correct....
> Watchtower July 15, 1922
> After reading the above Watchtower quotes about the prophcies regarding
> 1925, I cannot see how anyone could say the witnesses who acted on the
> writings of the Watchtower read too much into what was written or that
> it should have been viewed as a suggested possibility or even a
> probability. Yet after the prophecy failed the Watchtower did just that.
> Notice this quote from a sister as recorded in the 1975 yearbook of
> Jehovah's Witnesses:
> "1925 was a sad year for many brothers. Some of them were stumbled;
> their hopes were dashed. They had hoped to see some of the 'ancient
> worthies' [men of old like Abraham] resurrected. Instead of its being
> considered a 'probability,' they read into it that it was a 'certainty,'
> and some prepared for their own loved ones with expectancy of their
> resurrection..."
> 1975 Yearbook pg.146
> Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not
> state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their
> imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst
> assunder, they were inclined to throw away everything.
> Watchtower - August 1, 1926 pg. 232
> Fifty years later in 1975 the Watchtower found itself in the same
> situation as 1925 and true to form did the exact same thing. When their
> prophecy failed they blamed the individual witnesses saying it was them
> that 'based their hopes on false premises'. Below you will find the
> course of events that surrounded the 1975 prophecy. It is the same as in
> 1925. You will see what was said before 1975 arrived how all were sure
> of the things to come. Biblical and chronological proof was again put
> forth to back up the Watchtower's prophecy. How, many were encouraged
> for believing in what was written by the Watchtower regarding the year
> 1975. But when that year came and went, the tides turned and it turned
> onto the witnesses. You will see an unmistakable similarity between 1925
> and 1975. Same tricks, but decades apart.
> With the release of the book Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons
> of God the Watchtower Society draws a picture of the final part of the
> last days that ends in Armageddon. Showing the reader charts and graphs
> and quotes from anyone who had anything negative to say about the coming
> year 1975. In the quotes to follow notice how the Watchtower weaves the
> facts together but stops just short of making the final claim, but by
> then anyone with common sense knows the point of view they are being
> lead to believe.
> At all assembly points where it was released, the book was received
> enthusiastically. Crowds gathered around stands and soon supplies of the
> book were depleted. Immediately its contents were examined. It did not
> take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31,
> showing that 6,000 years of man's existence end in 1975. Discussion of
> 1975 overshadowed about everything else. "The new book compels us to
> realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed," said a
> conventioner. Surely it was one of the outstanding blessings to be
> carried home!
> Watchtower 10/15/66 pg.628-9
> But, without a doubt, nothing has created more interest in this textbook
> than the first chapter with its chart and fine information regarding the
> 7,000 years of God's rest day. The observation that 1975 may well mark
> the beginning of mankind's great Jubilee has intrigued many.
> Watchtower 1/1/67 pg.29
> 'What about the year 1975? What is it going to mean, dear friends?'
> asked Brother Franz. 'Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be
> finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are
> possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go
> down by 1975? It could.
> Watchtower 10/15/66 pg.631
> In their new book, Famine-1975!, two noted food experts, William and
> Paul Paddock, make this forecast for the future, on page 61:"By 1975
> civil disorder, anarchy, military dictator****ps, runaway inflation,
> trans****tation breakdowns and chaotic unrest will be the order of the
> day in many of the hungry nations.
> Watchtower 4/15/68 pg.227
> This next Watchtower quote says to the reader the next thousand years
> will be spent without Satan! Witnesses are taught that after Armageddon
> Satan will be locked away for a thousand years. So now this Watchtower
> magazine saying the next thousand years will be free of Satan is as good
> as saying Armageddon is about to come now, for the latter cannot (in the
> witness eyes of understanding) happen without the former coming true
> first. So if the next one thousand years are to be Satan free and that
> starts in the fall of 1975 then it would stand to reason that Armageddon
> would have to come just before the thousand years of Satan being
> abyssed. Thus Armageddon coming in 1975. But they did not say the words
> 'Armageddon is coming in 1975'. Though what other conclusion could be
> drawn from what is here written?. Note the following quote:
> According to the Bible timetable, man's history on earth has been nearly
> 6,000 years. Adam was created in 4026 B.C.E., which means that six
> thousand years of human history end about the fall of 1975 C.E. We are
> in the great 7,000-year rest day of God, starting at the time he rested
> after the creation of Adam and Eve. There are, therefore, a thousand
> years left to run. Without Satan and his demons to disturb mankind it
> will indeed be a restful time. It will be like a sabbath.
> Watchtower 7/15/67 pg.446-7
> This next quote leads the reader to believe that Armageddon is in the
> very immediate future. But that would depend upon what your definition
> of immediate is, or the phrase 'a few years at most'.
> I guess it's sort of like the varying definitions of the word 'is' with
> politicians today.
> The immediate future is certain to be filled with climactic events, for
> this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most
> the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these "last days" will
> undergo fulfillment, resulting in the liberation of surviving mankind
> into Christ's glorious 1,000-year reign. What difficult days, but, at
> the same time, what grand days are just ahead!
> Watchtower 5/1/68 pg.272
> Of all the pre 1975 quotes this is probably the most popular, notice
> what is encouraged in the Kingdom Ministry a year prior to 1975 (monthly
> internal JW newsletter)
> Re****ts are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and
> planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the
> pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time
> remaining before the wicked world's end.-1 John 2:17
> Kingdom Ministry May 1974 pg.3
> Let us now examine what was said after the prophecy about 1975 failed.
> Right after they were praised for selling their homes to pioneer (full
> time preaching) Note what the Watchtower said of those who followed that
> encouragement.
> It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives
> according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain
> date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or
> neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have
> missed the point of the Bible's warnings concerning the end of this
> system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific
> date.
> Watchtower 7/15/76 pg.440
> Did Jesus mean that we should adjust our financial and secular affairs
> so that our resources would just carry us to a certain date that we
> might think marks the end? If our house is suffering serious
> deterioration, should we let it go, on the assumption that we would need
> it only a few months longer? Or, if someone in the family possibly needs
> special medical care, should we say, 'Well, we'll put it off because the
> time is so near for this system of things to go'? This is not the kind
> of thinking that Jesus advised.
> Watchtower 7/15/76 pg.440
> But it is not advisable for us to set our sights on a certain date,
> neglecting everyday things we would ordinarily care for as Christians,
> such as things that we and our families really need. We may be
> forgetting that, when the "day" comes, it will not change the principle
> that Christians must at all times take care of all their
> responsibilities. If anyone has been disappointed through not following
> this line of thought, he should now concentrate on adjusting his
> viewpoint, seeing that it was not the word of God that failed or
> deceived him and brought disappointment, but that his own understanding
> was based on wrong premises.
> Watchtower 7/15/76 pg.441
> The Watchtower here is actually blaming it's readers for believing what
> it wrote! Note the harsh words to those who planned their lives around
> what they were taught about that coming year. It accuses them of
> 'planning their lives according to a mistaken view.' My question is
> where and from whom did they get that 'mistaken view?' The article also
> says of it's disappointed readers: 'his own understanding was based on
> wrong premises.' Again, where and from whom did the readers get these
> wrong premises? Of course as shown above they received it from the
> Watchtower. OK so let's see if I have this straight. They tell me they
> speak for God and I should follow them, when I do and what they say
> fails and now I've sold my home, and have no place to live. It's my
> fault for basing my hopes on wrong premises. Hummm. It may be hard for
> some to believe that the same organization that wrote the above articles
> also wrote the following:
> Still more serious is the fact that refusing to admit it when we are
> wrong burdens us with a guilty conscience, especially if someone else
> gets the blame for what we have done. And if we shrink back from
> admitting one wrong, this may get to be a habit. Humility also will help
> us to admit a wrong. When we think it through, failure to admit a wrong
> borders on hypocrisy, does it not? Neither the haughty person nor the
> hypocrite has God's approval.-Proverbs 21:4; James 3:17.
> Watchtower 9/1/82 pg.29-30
> The Watchtower Society has for decades claimed to be God's sole channel
> of communication on earth. They stand at the forefront of Christianity
> (in their opinion) but when it comes to accepting responsibility for
> failed predictions they hide behind their followers. In fifty years
> nothing has changed. At one time I did believe that God was with them
> but then left them because of their actions. But after going back as far
> as 1925 and seeing they were up to the same tricks back then. I'm sure
> now that he has never communicated his will through the Watchtower
> Society.
>
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