Antares 531 wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:14:41 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
> <calee@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:47:30 GMT, Antares 531
> ><gordonlrDELETE@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >
> >>On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:53:02 -0000, "BIll M" <wmech@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>I can't help but notice that no one can accept the God challenge.
> >>>
> >>>I posted a similer item several days ago and the message was deleted
by some
> >>>religious wacko. He doesn't mind 'sinning'!
> >>>
> >>>" Can anyone provide objective verifiable evidence that ANY REAL God
> >>>actually exists except in the imaginations of religionists???"
> >>>
> >>>There are hundreds of different God beliefs and religions.
> >>>Why does not any real God smite all the fakes and confirm to his
entire
> >>>flock that he is the real God and all the others are fakes???
> >>>
> >>First, to answer your core question, no, it is not possible to
> >>"empirically prove" the existence of God.
> >
> >Apart from the fallacy of special pleading (which begs the question
> >of its existence in the first place, which you cop out of answering),
> >the conclusion is obvious to everybody except those who already
> >believe.
> >
> >And the questions wouldn't even be asked if believers had the common
> >sense and courtesy to keep it within their religion.
> >
> >But they have neither. So the question gets asked in the "put up or
> >shut up" sense. And the repeated cop outs and other dishonesty of the
> >non-answers tells us plenty both about them and the hypothetical
> >object of their belief.
> >
> How would you suggest God should have handled this? If we start with
> the premise that God wants us to develop into mature sovereign
> individuals who volitionally choose to conduct our selves in
> compliance with His own will...not as puppets, but as sovereign beings
> who do God's will because it is exactly and precisely our own will.
Correct.
Man makes up his gods and then manipulates them to his heart's content
>
>
> Could we ever achieve this state without going through a developmental
> phase during which we are exposed to all the vagaries of sin and
> rebellion?
>
> Lucifer didn't have this background experience when he made his big
> blunder. And, had God stopped Lucifer, it would have been only a
> matter of time before the next created being headed into the same
> quest for understanding. God would then have had to stop this second
> being, then the third being....and so on until none remained as
> sovereign beings.
>
> Or, God could do as He has indicated to us that He chose to do...let
> Lucifer run his agenda and explore the whole regimen of sin and
> rebellion, with all of us partaking of this exploration.
>
> The bottom line is that we are to learn enough about sin and rebellion
> to insure that we will never, ever want to go back and explore it
> further, once we have been granted immortality.
> >
> >>But, if it were possible to prove the existence of God, would you or
> >>anyone else have anything approximating sovereign will? Or, would we
> >>all be overwhelmed and left with no choice but to go along with the
> >>program? Wouldn't this equate to us all being mere puppets with no
> >>sovereign will? Is this what God wants?
> >
> >Irrelevant, question-begging red herrings.
> >
> Irrelevant, only to the extent that you chose to make it irrelevant.
> But, you do have this sovereign choice. Had God slam dunked you into
> "KNOWING" that He existed, would you have any ability to make such
> sovereign choices?
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