On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 17:24:45 -0500, Gabriel
<gabriel_baptist@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:05:00 +0000, les_on_usenet
><delete-unread@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 04 Dec 2007 13:31:13 -0500, James <bireda@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>>>>Free Lunch <lunch@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>
>>>>Re: DOES ANY GOD EXIST?
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 11:45:17 -0600, in alt.atheism
>>>>duke <duckgumbo32@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>>>><a81si3ljcb2s6htomdunpfduaor2t5l751@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
>>>>>On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 12:24:13 -0000, "Bill M" <wmech@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>There is NO objective verifiable evidence for the existence of ANY
gods.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sure there is. You just prefer to profess that you know better, and
I disagree
>>>>>with you.
>>>>
>>>>You keep asserting it, but never offer any reference to any of this
>>>>supposed evidence. You act like you don't have any, but are too
pathetic
>>>>to admit it.
>>>>
>>>>By the way, Christian doctrine tells us that we do _not_ KNOW.
Claiming
>>>>to KNOW is the Gnostic heresy.
>>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>On the contrary, the Bible wants us to KNOW who created all these
>>>things. Ge 1:1,
>>>
>>>"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (NIV)
>>>
>>>And for evidence, if you walk into a store, I doubt it if you assume
>>>those items were produced by mindless random chance over time and then
>>>collected, and put in that store. Rather they have the 'mark' of being
>>>designed by an intelligence.
>>
>>Do they???!!!
>>
>>Amazing, I would never have thought it.
>>
>>It always looked natural do me. Do clouds have model numbers
>>then?
>
>If you would read before responding, you'd realized he already
>addressed it. He wasn't talking about a physical mark, like "made
>in China". He was talking about you just knowing that all of that
>was clearly designed. It didn't just evolve.
>
>>
>>> You just know that without having to
>>>verify that. (and by 'mark' I don't mean "made in China" or something)
>>>
>>>Well, if you look around the whole world, you also can see the 'mark'
>>>of a great designer and an intelligence.
Nope all looks quite natural to me.
>>Same comments.
>>
>>> The Bible wants us to
>>>consider that evidence and reasons with us the following way: Heb 3:4,
>>
>>>"For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is
>>>God." (NASB)
>>
>>Did the author of this extraordinary assertion explain how he knew
>>this and lay out the evidence for us?
>
>There's nothing to explain. Look around you: life itself;
>consciousness; conscience; sight; reproduction; the laws of
>nature; planets; perfect orbits; perfect conditions to live here
>on Earth, where any difference in a number of factors would make
>life here impossible; and the list goes on. This is all clearly
>evidence of intelligent design; i.e., God.
Before you can start claiming all this was the work of a god you
have first to eliminate all other possible options That not only
includes the ones theorised but possibility we have not even
conceived. One possibility for you to show is impossible is that
the universe has always existed.
>You're free to reject that this is what the evidence points to,
>but you want to ignore the evidence, which is where you go
>overboard.
I am not ignoring evidence. There is simply no evidence that
anything natural was by design nor any reason to.
>
>>
>>No?
>>
>>Thought not.
>>
>>The usual 'just accept it on my-say-so' approach that believers are
>>full of.
>
>It's the 'accept everything in this store and in this world just
>evolved because my-say-so' approach is what evolutionists use.
>What a coincidence.
Sorry but I don't know what the relevance of biology is to your
claim. Even if you are right - which you are not - it still does
not alter the fact that YOUR claim is pushed on an
acceptance on your-say-so basis. I take it your attempt
to divert attention is a tacit admission that you cannot
show I am wrong.
>>Fortunatly it is no longer a case of 'accept it or I will
>>persuade you with this club'
>
>Unfortunately, with most (not all) evolutionists, it's 'accept it
>or I will scream at you and insult you until you do believe what
>I believe or until you go away'.
Same attempt at diversion. At least you show no signs
of disagreeing.
>Romans 1:19-20 KJVR
> 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in
>them; for God hath showed it unto them.
> 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the
>world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are
>made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are
>without excuse:
Err what's the relevance of this ancient assertion to
your claims?
Strange how you people seem to think one assertion
can be validated by yet another one.
Les Hellawell
Greetings from
YORK****RE - The White Rose County
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