[snips]
On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 23:28:48 -0500, rockymt wrote:
> I can understand that many of you who frequent these newsgroups expect
> scientific proof/evidence and no less.
"Scientific evidence" is a pointless phrase. There is _evidence_, and
there is that which is not evidence. Science simply offers a way of
evaluating evidence, in particular, a way to weed out errors.
> A lot of
> what I'm hearing, at a much deeper level is that it is just too
> painful... impossible for me to listen to you let alone believe in a god
> with the state this world is in.
Then you're hearing the wrong thing. The issue is not and never has been
"it's too painful" or "how can God let X happen" - although the latter may
well be a legitimate question.
No, the issue is much simpler: if someone comes along and makes a claim,
we say "Show me."
We do this when someone claims they have a deed to the Brooklyn Bridge,
which they're willing to sell, cheap: really? Show me. Show me it is
legit, that you are the legal owner.
We do this when someone claims they have discovered cold fusion. We say
show me. Show us the details of the experiment, that we can duplicate and
validate it.
We do this when someone claims they've created a perpetual motion machine.
We say show me. Show us the details of the machine, the designs. Let us
examine it to verify there's no magnets or midgets involved. Or other
sources of input energy.
We do this when someone claims to have a miracle cure for cancer, or AIDS,
or some other disease. We say show me. Show us the medicine, the
clinical trials. Let us test it independently, to ensure it actually
works as claimed.
And we do this when someone claims gods. We say show me. Show us the
evidence these gods exist. And we never, ever, EVER get it.
> topics, such as hobbies, literature, s****ts travel etc. Maybe even come
> to enjoy each others company( outside of this newsgroup or in person),
> and even like one another. Who knows. What bothers me is that most are
> not just disagreeing, they're offending, insulting, making those that
> disagree, feel unwelcome
Guess what? Many of us read and post exclusively through alt.atheism.
Guess what? Theistic crap isn't topical here. Guess what? You and your
ilk are in *our* house spewing your crap. Not to mention all the other
details, like messing with the laws we live under, the education system
our kids go through - and which we, in part, pay for. And on and on.
Don't want to be made to feel unwelcome? Don't foist your crap on people
who don't want it.
> yet we don't stoop to degrading, offensive language. This is most likely
> because we've come to accept and respect one another.
And you and your ilk have done what, exactly, to *earn* our respect? Hey,
you're coming into *our* house with your crap; it's up to *you* to make
the effort. Do you?
I make very little effort to be respected by the theists... but then, I
don't invade their houses. I have not, as far as I'm aware, *ever*
initiated a post to a theistic group. I have, certainly, posted
follow-ups, such as this one, which get cross-posted... but then, the
majority of the cross-posted threads I've seen are, in fact, created *by*
theists.
> There is a foundation built of mutual respect.
And you've done what, precisely, to earn our respect while in our house?
> It's to bad it has to be like this so much- wish it'd tone down. I know
> this is not a friend****p newsgroup, but at a deeper level I feel for
> each and everyone of you, good bad or indifferent. And I know we don't
> really mean those hurtful things we say.
Like what? Like when I say that theism in general, and Christianity in
particular, is little more than the wor****p of unmitigated evil, and such
people should be treated in the same manner you'd treat a volatile
explosive - that is, expect them to go off and kill everyone in sight at
the drop of a hat? That sort of thing?
Why would I *not* mean that? Read the Bible sometime. There's this
psychotic, sadistic, evil monster described in it. Goes by the name of
"God". Yet these people will try to tell you this evil, twisted sickness
is "love" and "good". How can one look at a person doing that and treat
them as anything *but* a positive menace to society?
Oh, but they're not happy with that. No, no. They go on to actually
_pray_ for us. To ask their evil monster deity to intercede on our
behalf, to forgive us. And assuming we are forgiven, what do we get? We
get eternal life - the single most vile torment which has ever been
described by anyone in all recorded history. They *want* us to have this
torment. They *want* us to have it *forever*.
They are sick, twisted, evil people, following a sick, evil, twisted
belief system. Why the hell wouldn't I mean what I say, when facing that
level of an active, in-your-face threat?
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