"Free Lunch" <lunch@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:uioki3dse8sipd4jmqnq5t5ba3c3lvioqq@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 02:19:59 -0400, in alt.atheism
> "rockymt" <rockymt@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
> <fgbrjh$k08$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
>>
>>"Free Lunch" <lunch@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>news:ma4ii3h9njlst7kub3ss4tok5p4rast9vt@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:42:17 -0400, in alt.atheism
>>> "rockymt" <rockymt@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>>> <fg9pgv$8dn$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
>>>>
>>>>"Free Lunch" <lunch@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>news:rbgfi31hg5jc2etnft4gsauv48i9nouj63@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:07:08 -0400, in alt.atheism
>>>>> "rockymt" <rockymt@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>>>>> <fg8d94$jc9$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Free Lunch" <lunch@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:rkh9i31iljvmbood0itmt8ovbtpllnhpnc@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:10:45 -0500, in alt.atheism
>>>>>>> duke <duckgumbo32@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>>>>>>> <ujg9i3hcclhstf6adm9g6ob6tf1sv4fdsm@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
>>>>>>>>On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 08:48:25 -0500, Free Lunch
>>>>>>>><lunch@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 08:41:01 -0500, in alt.atheism
>>>>>>>>>duke <duckgumbo32@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>>>>>>>>><1949i3lsfdejtr8rek7qbg1hj617e70t7e@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
>>>>>>>>>>On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:24:35 +0100, "Bill M"
<wmech@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I find it dumbfounding that religionists spend billions of
their
>>>>>>>>>>>dollars and
>>>>>>>>>>>waste thousands of hours of their time adulating gods for which
>>>>>>>>>>>there
>>>>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>>>>NO-NADA objective verifiable evidence for their existence.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>There is evidence for us. But then again, we don't turn a blind
>>>>>>>>>>eye
>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>facts like you do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>There is no evidence to sup****t your claims about gods, souls,
>>>>>>>>>heaven
>>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>>hell. None at all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Get your head out of the atheist swill.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your total inability to offer sup****ting facts appears to be
getting
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have faith. the kingdom of God is not about science facts for your
>>>>>>info
>>>>>>... or my coming up with proof for the finite mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fine, you have faith. Why is your faith better or more reliable than
>>>>> the
>>>>> faith that others have?
>>>>
>>>>The resurrected Christ . no other faith can claim this All of
>>>>Christianity
>>>>hindges on this " can't be proven, but accepted with a child-like
faith"
>>>>fact.
>>>
>>> Yes, Christianity claims that Christ was resurrected. No evidence
>>> sup****ts that claim or any of the other claims about Jesus' godhood.
>>> Islam says that God is merciful and didn't need to create an avatar to
>>> kill.
>>>
>>>> Why is your religion better than someone else's?
>>>>
>>>>I accept Christianity to nbe the only true faith. the other don't even
>>>>count. they are man - made religions.
>>>
>>> Then there must be evidence that Christianity is not. Please provide
it.
>>>>
>>>>> I don't care if you have faith, but would you deny physical evidence
>>>>> because it donesn't fit with doctrines that you believe?
>>>>
>>>>I don't care if faith? what then should I say about your petty doubts?
>>>>God
>>>>is infinite, man has finite understanding. period.
>>>
>>> Nice rhetoric, but it doesn't answer a question.
>>>
>>>>>>the kingdom of God is about accepting the infinite, all knowing, all
>>>>>>powerful God with a childlike trust. If you don't accept the kingdom
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>God
>>>>>>like this kind of child-like faith, you are not worthy of the
Kingdom
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>will not enter it until you do, if you do. It is birthed within our
>>>>>>heart
>>>>>>and its fulfilment is Christ's return.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's an interesting claim.
>>>>
>>>>eternal damnation -Jesus took on our sin, so we wouldn't have to go
>>>>there
>>>
>>> Why was that necessary? Why couldn't God have shown the mercy He shows
>>> in Islam, without the death of Jesus?
>>>
>>>>> Why should anyone accept it?
>>>>
>>>>tired of running from God.. sick and tired of being sick and tired.
>>>>Something better :the kingdom of God - Jesus Christ
>>>
>>> What is the Kingdom of God? Where is it? Why is your version right
>>> (other than your mere assertion)?
>>>
>>>>>>within this heart that has the kingdom of God germinating, God's
>>>>>>revelation
>>>>>>is granted
>>>>>>Christianity is all about the Kingdom. the natural mind cannot
>>>>>>understand
>>>>>>the things of the spiritual world of the Kingdom to come, because it
>>>>>>is
>>>>>>spiritual appraised. So it is no wonder that those who say, "show
me
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>proof" have nothing else but what they see with their natural
eyes...
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>often stoop to insulting God's children.
>>>>>
>>>>> I ask for evidence, not proof. You honestly admit you have none.
Fine.
>>>>
>>>>look, faith is a thing of the heart, either you want to believe or you
>>>>don't. it is that simple.
>>>
>>> Yes, and more people believe religions that are not Christian than
>>> believe Christianity. Within Christianity, there are thousands of
>>> differing doctrines. Why is Christianity trustworthy?
>>>
>>>>This infinite God knows what to reveal to the heart(God will never
bend
>>>>to
>>>>the sceptic mind)
>>>
>>> Why not?
>>>
>>>> and what not to .
>>>
>>> So God does not offer grace to all.
>>
>>
>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<><><><><><><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>
>>> So God does not offer grace to all.
>>
>>God loves the sinner, and hates the sin.
>
> Whatever.
>
>>We live in a graceless world. God is the God of grace
>>He is also the God of mercy and compassion.
>
> He either offers grace, mercy and compassion to all or He doesn't. Which
> is it? If He doesn't why not? Is He arbitrary? Does He refuse to offer a
> chance to some?
>
> Do you think it's possible that the doctrines of Christianity were
> promulgated by men to control the behavior of others?
>
>>> Yes, and more people believe religions that are not Christian than
>>> believe Christianity. Within Christianity, there are thousands of
>>> differing doctrines. Why is Christianity trustworthy?
>>
>>this is something I cannot honestly answer. It is revealed to the heart
by
>>the holy Spirit.
>
> A vague, meaningless assertion.
>
>>There are also doctrines of demons :lies to lead the
>>faithful astray.But regarding core doctrine, mainstream Christian
>>denominations usually agree. The Holy Spirit makes the Word come alive,
>>makes it personal, makes it real & up close as the Christian reads and
>>studies his/her daily devotions.
>>
> So I'm told, but He doesn't do a very good job of getting people to
> agree, even on the big issues.
>>
>>What is the Kingdom of God? Where is it?
>>
>>the kingdom of God begins within the heart of man as he/she grows and
>>walks
>>in wholesome, righteous Christian living. it is to be lived out in this
>>the
>>dispensation( age) of the Church until Christ returns, where His
kingdom,
>>the government of Jesus Christ will reign in its fulfillment, forever.
>
> I'm not sure that says anything meaningful, but, okay.
>
>>Why is your version right
>>> (other than your mere assertion)?
>>
>> I don't claim my version to be right. It's what I believe in my heart
to
>>be true. I have no way of presenting to you any evidence., other than to
>>believe what Jesus Christ said, "I am the way the truth, and the life -
>>no
>>man comes to the Father but through me"
>>I am a believer...I am a follower of Christ therefore, however badly at
>>times I may be at that. I ask for God's grace to live right in His eyes.
>
> Okay.
>
>> Yes, Christianity claims that Christ was resurrected. No evidence
>>> sup****ts that claim or any of the other claims about Jesus' godhood.
>>> Islam says that God is merciful and didn't need to create an avatar to
>>> kill.
>>>
>>
>>Again it is what I choose to believe: I believe this to be the truth,
that
>>God the Father sent His only begotten Son, Jesus to pay the sin debt, a
>>Propitiation for the sin of all mankind:
>
> Why would a gracious God care? Is God really incapable of forgiving
> without a sacrifice?
>
>> Jesus became the lamb of God Who
>>takes away the sins of the world.In exchange we are credited God's
>>righteousness. Jesus paid a debt he did not owe. I owed a debt I could
not
>>pay. This I plainly accept, by faith... because it is the only way to
>>believe the cross, burial and the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the son
of
>>God, second person of the trinity - by faith
>
> Okay.
>
>> "I don't care if you have faith"
>>
>>I pray that you will someday
>> this is the only way to come to the faith: by faith, that is to come to
>> an
>>understanding of the K O God, to enjoy the presence of the Holy Spirit..
>>to
>>live the Christian life with assurance. How can fact and faith co-exist
in
>>the Christian walk.
>
> I've been a Christian. I'm not any more. I see no evidence that God
> exists and see no reason to ignore the present based on totally
> unsubstantiated promises for an afterlife. If you care about people, do
> things for them here. Praying doesn't feed them. It doesn't clothe them.
> It doesn't give them health care or an education or a job. It would be
> nice to think that there is an afterlife where the wicked hypocrites who
> have taken over our country and our churches will suffer interminably,
> but I don't expect it to happen.
>
>>"the natural mind cannot understand these spiritual things ( they are
>>foolishness to him/her) because they are spiritually appraised."
>
> An excuse for having nothing but unsubstantiated claims.
<>><><><><><><><><><<>><><<>><<><><><>><<><><><>><<><><><>><<><><><><>
><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<><><><><><><><><><>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
He either offers grace, mercy and compassion to all or He doesn't. Which
is it? If He doesn't why not? Is He arbitrary? Does He refuse to offer a
chance to some?
He does offer grace to the unsaved too. it is called common grace: the
Holy Spirit draws those who are estranged from Him. He knows exactly what
it
take to move them. unfortunately those within the church do a poor job
because they are not being lead by the Holy Spirit and the His love poured
is not into their hearts. So they move on their own fleshly impulses. This
is why so many are turned off by religion, because it is presented so
badly.
God does not do anything by chance. He has a definite purpose and plan,
even
for the unbeliever.
> Do you think it's possible that the doctrines of Christianity were
> promulgated by men to control the behavior of others?by men to control
the
> behavior of others?
True doctrines of Christianity : never. The doctrines of the Apostle
Paul
wrote while in prison( for example) while establi****ng the New Test
Church.
Doctrines of men, false doctrines: yes, definitely. Referred to by the
Word
of God as doctrines of demons.
> A vague, meaningless assertion.
How is one to explain the mysteries of the Kingdom of God. Jesus spoke of
the K-O-G through parables, indirectly ( seemingly vague): In a manner to
expain what cannot be understood by our natural mind. Therefore these
parables become like a sought out precious treasure that can only be
recieved by the heart of man. But once it reaches the heart, wow!
>>
> So I'm told, but He doesn't do a very good job of getting people to
> agree, even on the big issues.
God has left the church to work it out. It is the chruch that has done
the
poor job. This is the mystical body of Christ with Jesus being the head.
Just as man and women procreate and bring life into this world, so too,
God
has given the church (by the power of the Holy Spirit) the op****tunity
draw
the unsaved to the re-birth experience. Of course the enemy is there to
spoil it if he can, but God's Word promises, "the gates of hell will not
prevail against the church"
>
>>Why is your version right
>>> (other than your mere assertion)?
It is right to me and many other believers in the Risen Saviour. It is
something that I honestly believe in my heart, but have no way of proving.
like two complete uncompatible software programs: the natural software
does
not take to the spiritual imput. My carnal mind would have never come to
the
faith. So I am not surprise that I here so much "why is your religion
right
and the others not"
Why would a gracious God care? Is God really incapable of forgiving
> without a sacrifice?
The cross is an offence to many: I can see why. the natural mind will not
accept this & I understand.
"The wages of sin is death. The soul that sins shall surely perish in its
sin"
"God didn't come into the world to condemn the world, but through Jesus
Christ the world might be saved"
He is God, so I accept his substitutionary death in my place, for my sins.
in exchange I'm clothed with His righteousness. Without the sacrifice all
mankind would be doomed to eternal death.
this is what I believe to be true in my heart.
I've been a Christian. I'm not any more.
I hope that you will return to the faith. I pray the Holy Spirit will draw
you to Himself. Many people as yourself have been turned off with
religion,
especially Christianity - and rightly so. God is waiting for you to
respond
to Him. He loves you ( please don't be annoyed at my saying this) Just
give
him a chance, or at least consider it.
I see no evidence that God
> exists and see no reason to ignore the present based on totally
> unsubstantiated promises for an afterlife. If you care about people, do
> things for them here. Praying doesn't feed them. It doesn't clothe them.
> It doesn't give them health care or an education or a job.
Very true. You are saying in your own the words the words from Matthew
25: the kingdom of God is first lived out here on earth ans it will be in
the age to come
I hope to do my part. God help me if I don't.
It would be
> nice to think that there is an afterlife where the wicked hypocrites who
> have taken over our country and our churches will suffer interminably,
> but I don't expect it to happen.
God bless you
rockymt
|
