On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 02:19:59 -0400, in alt.atheism
"rockymt" <rockymt@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
<fgbrjh$k08$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
>
>"Free Lunch" <lunch@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>news:ma4ii3h9njlst7kub3ss4tok5p4rast9vt@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2007 07:42:17 -0400, in alt.atheism
>> "rockymt" <rockymt@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>> <fg9pgv$8dn$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
>>>
>>>"Free Lunch" <lunch@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>news:rbgfi31hg5jc2etnft4gsauv48i9nouj63@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 19:07:08 -0400, in alt.atheism
>>>> "rockymt" <rockymt@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>>>> <fg8d94$jc9$1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
>>>>>
>>>>>"Free Lunch" <lunch@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>>news:rkh9i31iljvmbood0itmt8ovbtpllnhpnc@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:10:45 -0500, in alt.atheism
>>>>>> duke <duckgumbo32@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>>>>>> <ujg9i3hcclhstf6adm9g6ob6tf1sv4fdsm@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
>>>>>>>On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 08:48:25 -0500, Free Lunch
<lunch@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 08:41:01 -0500, in alt.atheism
>>>>>>>>duke <duckgumbo32@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>>>>>>>><1949i3lsfdejtr8rek7qbg1hj617e70t7e@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>:
>>>>>>>>>On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:24:35 +0100, "Bill M"
<wmech@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I find it dumbfounding that religionists spend billions of their
>>>>>>>>>>dollars and
>>>>>>>>>>waste thousands of hours of their time adulating gods for which
>>>>>>>>>>there
>>>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>>>NO-NADA objective verifiable evidence for their existence.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>There is evidence for us. But then again, we don't turn a blind
eye
>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>facts like you do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>There is no evidence to sup****t your claims about gods, souls,
heaven
>>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>>hell. None at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Get your head out of the atheist swill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your total inability to offer sup****ting facts appears to be
getting
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have faith. the kingdom of God is not about science facts for your
>>>>>info
>>>>>... or my coming up with proof for the finite mind.
>>>>
>>>> Fine, you have faith. Why is your faith better or more reliable than
the
>>>> faith that others have?
>>>
>>>The resurrected Christ . no other faith can claim this All of
>>>Christianity
>>>hindges on this " can't be proven, but accepted with a child-like
faith"
>>>fact.
>>
>> Yes, Christianity claims that Christ was resurrected. No evidence
>> sup****ts that claim or any of the other claims about Jesus' godhood.
>> Islam says that God is merciful and didn't need to create an avatar to
>> kill.
>>
>>> Why is your religion better than someone else's?
>>>
>>>I accept Christianity to nbe the only true faith. the other don't even
>>>count. they are man - made religions.
>>
>> Then there must be evidence that Christianity is not. Please provide
it.
>>>
>>>> I don't care if you have faith, but would you deny physical evidence
>>>> because it donesn't fit with doctrines that you believe?
>>>
>>>I don't care if faith? what then should I say about your petty doubts?
>>>God
>>>is infinite, man has finite understanding. period.
>>
>> Nice rhetoric, but it doesn't answer a question.
>>
>>>>>the kingdom of God is about accepting the infinite, all knowing, all
>>>>>powerful God with a childlike trust. If you don't accept the kingdom
of
>>>>>God
>>>>>like this kind of child-like faith, you are not worthy of the Kingdom
>>>>>and
>>>>>will not enter it until you do, if you do. It is birthed within our
>>>>>heart
>>>>>and its fulfilment is Christ's return.
>>>>
>>>> That's an interesting claim.
>>>
>>>eternal damnation -Jesus took on our sin, so we wouldn't have to go
there
>>
>> Why was that necessary? Why couldn't God have shown the mercy He shows
>> in Islam, without the death of Jesus?
>>
>>>> Why should anyone accept it?
>>>
>>>tired of running from God.. sick and tired of being sick and tired.
>>>Something better :the kingdom of God - Jesus Christ
>>
>> What is the Kingdom of God? Where is it? Why is your version right
>> (other than your mere assertion)?
>>
>>>>>within this heart that has the kingdom of God germinating, God's
>>>>>revelation
>>>>>is granted
>>>>>Christianity is all about the Kingdom. the natural mind cannot
>>>>>understand
>>>>>the things of the spiritual world of the Kingdom to come, because it
is
>>>>>spiritual appraised. So it is no wonder that those who say, "show me
>>>>>the
>>>>>proof" have nothing else but what they see with their natural eyes...
>>>>>and
>>>>>often stoop to insulting God's children.
>>>>
>>>> I ask for evidence, not proof. You honestly admit you have none.
Fine.
>>>
>>>look, faith is a thing of the heart, either you want to believe or you
>>>don't. it is that simple.
>>
>> Yes, and more people believe religions that are not Christian than
>> believe Christianity. Within Christianity, there are thousands of
>> differing doctrines. Why is Christianity trustworthy?
>>
>>>This infinite God knows what to reveal to the heart(God will never bend
to
>>>the sceptic mind)
>>
>> Why not?
>>
>>> and what not to .
>>
>> So God does not offer grace to all.
>
>
>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<><><><><><><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
>> So God does not offer grace to all.
>
>God loves the sinner, and hates the sin.
Whatever.
>We live in a graceless world. God is the God of grace
>He is also the God of mercy and compassion.
He either offers grace, mercy and compassion to all or He doesn't. Which
is it? If He doesn't why not? Is He arbitrary? Does He refuse to offer a
chance to some?
Do you think it's possible that the doctrines of Christianity were
promulgated by men to control the behavior of others?
>> Yes, and more people believe religions that are not Christian than
>> believe Christianity. Within Christianity, there are thousands of
>> differing doctrines. Why is Christianity trustworthy?
>
>this is something I cannot honestly answer. It is revealed to the heart
by
>the holy Spirit.
A vague, meaningless assertion.
>There are also doctrines of demons :lies to lead the
>faithful astray.But regarding core doctrine, mainstream Christian
>denominations usually agree. The Holy Spirit makes the Word come alive,
>makes it personal, makes it real & up close as the Christian reads and
>studies his/her daily devotions.
>
So I'm told, but He doesn't do a very good job of getting people to
agree, even on the big issues.
>
>What is the Kingdom of God? Where is it?
>
>the kingdom of God begins within the heart of man as he/she grows and
walks
>in wholesome, righteous Christian living. it is to be lived out in this
the
>dispensation( age) of the Church until Christ returns, where His kingdom,
>the government of Jesus Christ will reign in its fulfillment, forever.
I'm not sure that says anything meaningful, but, okay.
>Why is your version right
>> (other than your mere assertion)?
>
> I don't claim my version to be right. It's what I believe in my heart
to
>be true. I have no way of presenting to you any evidence., other than to
>believe what Jesus Christ said, "I am the way the truth, and the life -
no
>man comes to the Father but through me"
>I am a believer...I am a follower of Christ therefore, however badly at
>times I may be at that. I ask for God's grace to live right in His eyes.
Okay.
> Yes, Christianity claims that Christ was resurrected. No evidence
>> sup****ts that claim or any of the other claims about Jesus' godhood.
>> Islam says that God is merciful and didn't need to create an avatar to
>> kill.
>>
>
>Again it is what I choose to believe: I believe this to be the truth,
that
>God the Father sent His only begotten Son, Jesus to pay the sin debt, a
>Propitiation for the sin of all mankind:
Why would a gracious God care? Is God really incapable of forgiving
without a sacrifice?
> Jesus became the lamb of God Who
>takes away the sins of the world.In exchange we are credited God's
>righteousness. Jesus paid a debt he did not owe. I owed a debt I could
not
>pay. This I plainly accept, by faith... because it is the only way to
>believe the cross, burial and the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the son
of
>God, second person of the trinity - by faith
Okay.
> "I don't care if you have faith"
>
>I pray that you will someday
> this is the only way to come to the faith: by faith, that is to come to
an
>understanding of the K O God, to enjoy the presence of the Holy Spirit..
to
>live the Christian life with assurance. How can fact and faith co-exist
in
>the Christian walk.
I've been a Christian. I'm not any more. I see no evidence that God
exists and see no reason to ignore the present based on totally
unsubstantiated promises for an afterlife. If you care about people, do
things for them here. Praying doesn't feed them. It doesn't clothe them.
It doesn't give them health care or an education or a job. It would be
nice to think that there is an afterlife where the wicked hypocrites who
have taken over our country and our churches will suffer interminably,
but I don't expect it to happen.
>"the natural mind cannot understand these spiritual things ( they are
>foolishness to him/her) because they are spiritually appraised."
An excuse for having nothing but unsubstantiated claims.
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