Day Brown wrote:
> I dunno what solution there mite be; I expect to see the problem emerge
> more forcefully on wiccan/pagan lists as well.
>
> The anthropological record, from Finland to the tropics, *commonly*
> shows us shamen and witches who use "entheogens", which others
> denigrate calling them "drugs". I dont mind if someone wants to forgo
> the use of ancestral sacred potions. But to then take an elitist
> attitude of superiority about it, as if only they were given the sacred
> vision, strikes me as an egotistical attempt to use the methods of
> those who follow Levantine scripture; that is, given a mission, a
> mandate, some kind of gospel that they will deliver to the rest of us
> plebes.
>
> If you have the self control to achieve an altered state of
> consciousness without 'drugs', well good for you. It must be
> convenient. Others are challenged with noisier nervous systems that are
> not so easy to quell in the pursuit of spiritual enlightenment. I dont
> regard them as necessarily having a lower state of consciousness, and
> if they seek to raise it, am for them using whatever works for them.
> The anthropological record shows us hypnotic drumming, dance, or
> tantric ***uality that manipulate stimulation. There's also deliberate
> attempts to lower stimulation that may go on for variable amounts of
> time, such as a few days fasting on a quest, to months or even years in
> a monastic setting. But whichever, wherever, whatever psychoactive
> compounds the local ecosystems may provide are also employed- with any
> of the above, or by itself.
>
> Ethnobotanist RG Wasson, "Persephone's Quest", traces the pre-history
> of the famous Vedic potion Soma back 7000 years in Europe, but also
> shows us how Ugarit and Finish shamen are still using a potion based on
> the Amanita Muscaria. The whole attitude which Wasson outlines, is that
> Soma existed so that *everyone*, not just a gifted spiritual elite,
> could experience altered states of consciousness, and not accept the
> word of someone who got on a pulpit to tell us what it is all about.
>
> I know there are fluff bunnies who fear to use a potion to try to
> achieve enlightenment, and perforce must rely on the testimony of
> another. And we are all aware of how often a high mucky muck priest
> requires *** from young women as a method of providing that spiritual
> experience they desire. If it works for them, I dont have a problem
> with it. I know one witch who feels that it proved to herself a degree
> of dedication that removed all doubt in her mind about being a fluff
> bunny. But there are also re****ts in which women feel they were
> exploited.
>
> As may be, I dunno. While tropical cultures seem to be too mysogenistic
> to permit women to use entheogens, archaeology shows us that the
> witches of Europe were the case managers at rituals, which was a main
> reason they were roasted. Men who were exposed to the combination of
> sacred *** and sacred potions tended to take a very dim view of the
> claims of scripture. I've yet to read a re****t of a man unhappy with
> his spiritual experience of sacred *** with a witch.
>
> Its obvious that anyone claiming to be a spiritual guide in a Native
> American or tropical tribe who would not use the sacred potions or
> ***ual rituals of his ancestors would be regarded as a nut and a fraud.
> Why then, is the standard different for Native Europeans? But this is
> the fundamental schism which appeared at soc.religion.shamanism; some
> people got pretty bent out of shape about it, and I expect that the
> issue, when raised here, will likewise disturb sensibilites.
>
> Archaeology is disturbed as well; in her books, Gimbutas shows us lots
> of what she calls "phallic wands" that were found in the tels that we
> now know were run by witches. But I've seen **** flicks, and I know
> dildos when I see them, even if they are 7000 years old. They have also
> found clay and stone models of Amanita Muscaria, and pots decorated
> with psychedelic morphs of magic mushroom. But they dont want to talk
> about what they found, much less think about it. Nor do the fluff
> bunnies want to think about what their own ancestors were really doing.
>
> I dont blame them for not going in for animal sacrifice. I'd hate to
> see animals that were not killed cleanly by amateurs. But shamen and
> witches the world over show us rituals that employ sacred drumming,
> dance, ***, and/or potions that do not risk harm to anyone. The only
> reason we dont see them used ourselves is the social conditioning of
> Christianity that Nietzsche said so permeated the culture people didnt
> even realize they had been controlled by it. Since I am not a
> Christian, I wont engage in personal polemics.
>
> Perhaps you recall that when Polemus circulated his criticism of well
> known pagan prophets and clergy, people were just appalled. Only
> Christians did that sort of thing.
>
I have used drugs in ritual and have no qualms about using blood if
necessary. I would also take a baseball bat to someones head rather
than curse them.
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