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Religion > Goddess Worship > Re: POINTER: ne...
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Re: POINTER: new moderator proposed for soc.religion.shamanism

by "Day Brown" <daybrown@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Jan 10, 2007 at 12:56 PM

I dunno what solution there mite be; I expect to see the problem emerge
more forcefully on wiccan/pagan lists as well.

The anthropological record, from Finland to the tropics, *commonly*
shows us shamen and witches who use "entheogens", which others
denigrate calling them "drugs". I dont mind if someone wants to forgo
the use of ancestral sacred potions. But to then take an elitist
attitude of superiority about it, as if only they were given the sacred
vision, strikes me as an egotistical attempt to use the methods of
those who follow Levantine scripture; that is, given a mission, a
mandate, some kind of gospel that they will deliver to the rest of us
plebes.

If you have the self control to achieve an altered state of
consciousness without 'drugs', well good for you. It must be
convenient. Others are challenged with noisier nervous systems that are
not so easy to quell in the pursuit of spiritual enlightenment. I dont
regard them as necessarily having a lower state of consciousness, and
if they seek to raise it, am for them using whatever works for them.
The anthropological record shows us hypnotic drumming, dance, or
tantric sexuality that manipulate stimulation. There's also deliberate
attempts to lower stimulation that may go on for variable amounts of
time, such as a few days fasting on a quest, to months or even years in
a monastic setting. But whichever, wherever, whatever psychoactive
compounds the local ecosystems may provide are also employed- with any
of the above, or by itself.

Ethnobotanist RG Wasson, "Persephone's Quest", traces the pre-history
of the famous Vedic potion Soma back 7000 years in Europe, but also
shows us how Ugarit and Finish shamen are still using a potion based on
the Amanita Muscaria. The whole attitude which Wasson outlines, is that
Soma existed so that *everyone*, not just a gifted spiritual elite,
could experience altered states of consciousness, and not accept the
word of someone who got on a pulpit to tell us what it is all about.

I know there are fluff bunnies who fear to use a potion to try to
achieve enlightenment, and perforce must rely on the testimony of
another. And we are all aware of how often a high mucky muck priest
requires sex from young women as a method of providing that spiritual
experience they desire. If it works for them, I dont have a problem
with it. I know one witch who feels that it proved to herself a degree
of dedication that removed all doubt in her mind about being a fluff
bunny. But there are also reports in which women feel they were
exploited.

As may be, I dunno. While tropical cultures seem to be too mysogenistic
to permit women to use entheogens, archaeology shows us that the
witches of Europe were the case managers at rituals, which was a main
reason they were roasted. Men who were exposed to the combination of
sacred sex and sacred potions tended to take a very dim view of the
claims of scripture. I've yet to read a report of a man unhappy with
his spiritual experience of sacred sex with a witch.

Its obvious that anyone claiming to be a spiritual guide in a Native
American  or tropical tribe who would not use the sacred potions or
sexual rituals of his ancestors would be regarded as a nut and a fraud.
Why then, is the standard different for Native Europeans? But this is
the fundamental schism which appeared at soc.religion.shamanism; some
people got pretty bent out of shape about it, and I expect that the
issue, when raised here, will likewise disturb sensibilites.

Archaeology is disturbed as well; in her books, Gimbutas shows us lots
of what she calls "phallic wands" that were found in the tels that we
now know were run by witches. But I've seen porn flicks, and I know
dildos when I see them, even if they are 7000 years old. They have also
found clay and stone models of Amanita Muscaria, and pots decorated
with psychedelic morphs of magic mushroom. But they dont want to talk
about what they found, much less think about it. Nor do the fluff
bunnies want to think about what their own ancestors were really doing.

I dont blame them for not going in for animal sacrifice. I'd hate to
see animals that were not killed cleanly by amateurs. But shamen and
witches the world over show us rituals that employ sacred drumming,
dance, sex, and/or potions that do not risk harm to anyone. The only
reason we dont see them used ourselves is the social conditioning of
Christianity that Nietzsche said so permeated the culture people didnt
even realize they had been controlled by it. Since I am not a
Christian, I wont engage in personal polemics.

Perhaps you recall that when Polemus circulated his criticism of well
known pagan prophets and clergy, people were just appalled. Only
Christians did that sort of thing.




 4 Posts in Topic:
Re: POINTER: new moderator proposed for soc.religion.shamanism
"Day Brown" <  2007-01-10 12:56:54 
Re: POINTER: new moderator proposed for soc.religion.shamanism
kj <kevinjay@[EMAIL PR  2007-01-10 21:30:03 
Re: POINTER: new moderator proposed for soc.religion.shamanism
Azure <tain@[EMAIL PRO  2007-01-10 22:13:22 
Re: POINTER: new moderator proposed for soc.religion.shamanism
kj <kevinjay@[EMAIL PR  2007-01-11 13:24:21 

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