"Immortalist" <reanimater_2000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:93fdf8a7-4857-4c3f-be2f-a091c55b1c56@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Nov 22, 1:48 pm, "David H" <fe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> "Immortalist" <reanimater_2...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>
>>
news:85fcd5e0-ab0c-4688-8280-d91a23ddd4db@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 22, 12:54 pm, "David H" <fe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >> "Immortalist" <reanimater_2...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>news:4c2cc6a2-f997-49f8-8b61-84551c84a755@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> >> > On Nov 22, 6:06 am, V <vf...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >> >> Without spiritual values, the atheist is sunk. The conundrum of
the
>> >> >> mind manacled, defiance based, spiritually sick atheist is this.
>> >> >> They
>> >> >> need spiritual values to be at peace - yet their own defiance
>> >> >> blocks
>> >> >> them from seeking and finding these values.
>>
>> >> >> The atheist that only has a foundation of ego and hate will never
>> >> >> find
>> >> >> peace. If any theist questioning their faith should wonder onto
>> >> >> alt.atheism, for instance, they could see this for themselves
with
>> >> >> many spiritually sick example members and their projection of
this
>> >> >> spiritual sickness and self hate onto others.
>>
>> >> >> What is missing in these atheists lives?
>>
>> >> >> Do they need to get religion?
>>
>> >> >> Not necessarily.
>>
>> >> >> As we see, many people claiming to be religious are just as bad
off
>> >> >> as
>> >> >> atheists or sometimes worse.
>>
>> >> >> "People that practice religion are worried about going to hell -
>> >> >> people that practice spirituality have already been to hell and
>> >> >> don't
>> >> >> want to go back."
>>
>> >> >> Spiritual values is what they are short on.
>>
>> >> > What is a spiritual value?
>>
>> >> A spiritual value is nothing. This "spiritual" **** is just a
lazy
>> >> way
>> >> to keep from contemplating conciousness to the point of realizing it
>> >> ends.
>>
>> > If a religious person is experiencing what he or she believes is a
>> > spiritual value, is this a false label for what you label
>> > contemplation?
>>
>> I read somewhere a statement that went someting like this:
"Belief
>> is
>> insubstantial. One can only *know things to varying degrees of
>> certainty."
>> Spiritual values? Which spirit, and what value?
>> Can we not simply take owner****p of our own good and evil?
>> I think it's quaint that the term is "Believers" and not "Knowers".
>>
>
> How can you own things that are "nothing" as you say? I mean you have
> not eliminated the possibility that "good and evil" are "spiritual
> values." Actually your definition of SV seem inadequete for this
> debate here to begin with. Please give a better definition of these
> values for us to work on.
>
I thought that's what *I was asking for...
Sorry to mislead.
Good and evil are not spritual things. Values are behaviors or
attitudes
that can be labeled as either good or evil. We can also call them morals.
There is only one book of morals; it's just where you place your
bookmark relative to the current local social norm that determines them to
be either good or evil.
Drawn and quartered? Today, evil. But here's an eyewhitness account
taken from
http://listverse.com/history/top-10-gruesome-methods-of-execution/
"To my Lord's in the morning, where I met with Captain Cuttance, but
my
Lord not being up I went out to Charing Cross, to see Major-general
Harrison
hanged, drawn, and quartered; which was done there, he looking as cheerful
as any man could do in that condition. He was presently cut down, and his
head and heart shown to the people, at which there was great shouts of
joy.
It is said, that he said that he was sure to come shortly at the right
hand
of Christ to judge them that now had judged him; and that his wife do
expect
his coming again. Thus it was my chance to see the King beheaded at White
Hall, and to see the first blood shed in revenge for the blood of the King
at Charing Cross."
Now, I will say that those doing the executing "believed" they weren't
doing anything to violate values or to gain disfavor of any "spirits". Do
you agree? Maybe even the opposite.
The values we label as spiritual are really just our own values that we,
for either manevolent or virtuous reasons, refuse to take owner****p of.
Did I help clear that up?
Let me know if not and I'll try to do better.
>>
>>
>>
>> >> > How are they different from other values?
>> >> > If the activities of the brain, which are identical to spiritual
>> >> > values can become active by other value systems, whats the
>> >> > difference,
>> >> > if everybody stimulates these areas of the brain?- Hide quoted
>> >> > text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
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