"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:8mqv141udb60a2v3i675f61ab72665jp8q@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 21:07:40 -0500, "Lars Wilson"
> <siaxares@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> spake thusly:
>
>
>>"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>news:dc5v14pm1gb6o4tuh6mf4dn8oghfhehkt1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> On Mon, 05 May 2008 20:59:23 GMT, " Sword of the Spirit"
>>> <swordofspirit@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> spake thusly:
>>>
>>
>>> And btw, I haven't seen any response to the BIBLICAL PROOF
>>> that Paul had clearly stated that the Gospel had been
>>> preached to everyone needed, to fulfill the prophecy!
>>
>>There is more than one level of prophecy with many parallels.
>
> Okay, here comes the crapola, where he knows that
> he cannot refute what I said and so, pretends that
> it REALLY MEANS that it will get fulfilled in different
> ways, in different times, which the Bible never says!
>
> Now just so you all know, I didn't even read past this
> first comment before writing the paragraph above!
> I just know what's coming, because Futurists, when
> proved wrong, can never face the facts and will indeed
> make something up on the fly, to try to avoid confessing
> that their doctrine is wrong!
>
> So let's see if I'm right and if that's what he did,
> shall we? This should be fun! :)
>
>
>>The message of Christ may have indeed reached
>>the entire Jewish world in Paul's day.
>
> And there it is, folks! It's not "the world", but now,
> it's "the Jewish world"! Note how a word was added
> to the Scriptures, by this guy, to avoid admitting to
> what he knows is true, because it interferes with his
> vain doctrine that the Bible is all about him and his time!
>
You make a good point! I had to go back and review this.
> Nice try at perverting Scripture, but Paul did NOT say,
> "The entire JEWISH world" and you have just added
> a word to Scripture, which God forbids in Scripture!
>
> Paul said...
>
> Romans 10:17-18
>
> 17) So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing
> by the word of God.
> 18) But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:
> Their sound HAS gone out to ALL THE EARTH
> And their words TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD.
>
> Note: HAS gone out.
>
> Note: ALL THE EARTH.
>
> Note: The ENDS OF THE WORLD.
>
Paul was not talking about the Christians and their preaching here.
He was quoting PSALMS which was about the heavens:
Here is the context of what Paul is quoting from:
1 The heavens are declaring the glory of God;
And of the work of his hands the expanse is telling.
2 One day after another day causes speech to bubble forth,
And one night after another night shows forth knowledge.
3 There is no speech, and there are no words;
No voice on their part is being heard.
4 Into all the earth their measuring line has gone out,
And to the extremity of the productive land their utterances.
So Paul is making an allegorical remark here about how the natural
universe
seen all over the entire globe declare God's majesty and attest to him.
So
he was not talking specifically about the good news reaching all the
extremities of the earth as preached by the Christians but about the
testimony in nature throughout the entire world that reflect God's glory.
>
> And Paul also said...
>
> Colossians 1:6a,23
>
> 6a) which has come to you, as it has also IN ALL
> THE WORLD and is bringing forth fruit...
> 23) ...if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded
> and steadfast, and are not moved away from the
> hope of the Gospel which you heard, which WAS
> PREACHES TO EVERY CREATURE UNDER HEAVEN,
> of which I, Paul, became a minister.
>
> Note: IN ALL THE WORLD.
>
> Note: WAS preached.
>
> Note: TO EVERY CREATURE UNDER HEAVEN.
>
Yes, ALL CREATION is what is "preaching" this good news
as well. The heavens. The stars, NATURE. So Paul is
including the voice of creation as part of this "good news".
The "good news" preached in all creation is that of NATURE which Psalms
says
declares the glory of God. It is the stars and God's work that testify to
every creature under heaven, thus Paul is including the "witness" of God's
works, which was created by Christ. So it is true. If the "heavens" and
"nature" are part of the "good news" then it is being "preached" in all
the
world and to every creature under heaven.
> Gee, maybe you should stop trying to project
> the population today, back onto their world then!
>
So I retract my previous statement about the good news being preached by
Christians throughout the entire Roman or Jewish world. Paul was
including
what they preached with what is preached by nature in the entire world,
quoting the context of Psalms that nature itself declares the good news
about God and Christ. So it's an allegory and not a contradiction. But
thanks! I'm glad I looked at this further and read the other scriptures.
> And maybe you should stop thinking that all of
> the people today, have to have it preached to them,
> when it was said in the 1st century and not the 21st!
>
Right. Only there is a technical difference. The "good news" being
preached around the world before the "end" comes, that is, before 1947 and
the "end" of the gentile times, would be preached worldwide. That is not
the same comparison as what Paul is talking about, which includes his
allegorical reference to Psalms and the silent testimoney of creation,
nature. So the two are two separate references.
> Duh!!!
>
You're right! Paul was not saying the Christians had preached the message
world wide, but that the "good news" included the sound of testimony in
nature which is throughout the entire world. So that even someone far
away
who sees the heavens perceives what God and Christ have done.
> And don't bother denying it, since we both know
> that's what you believe, which is why you play your
> ridiculous "1948 Jewish State" crapola game!
>
No. I have refined my take on Paul's word and his words
about the "good news" being preached to entire creation
included the silent testimony of all of nature. He was quoting
Psalms.
At the second coming, the "good news" of the kingdom would be preached by
the "temple in its right condition" group, which would just be starting
out
with a few people around 1886, but by 1947 would have to have become an
international sect, preaching around the world. This is fulfilled by
Jehovah's witnesses. As proof, earlier in 1947, then President NH Knorr
arranged a world-wide speaking tour where he visited congregations of
Jehovah's witnesses around the globe. So the message had become
international, not just regional, by 1947. So that was, indeed,
fulfilled.
Again, Paul is a different situation who is including as the testimony of
the "good news" to all in the entire world what Psalm expressed about how
nature and creation testify about God and Christ, and how the beauty and
majesty of nature cause praise to God. When you include all of "nature"
as
part of the testimony by God of the "good news" then, of course, he could
say it was in all the world, and to every creature under heaven. This
is
not the same as Matthew mentioning the "good news" had to be preached
worldwide before the "end" (of the gentile times) comes in 1947.
So THANKS. All is well. I will no longer try to repeat the loose
reference
that the Christian's of Paul's day preached the good news all over the
globe
or that his reference to the extent of the good news being heard was a
local
reference to the Jewish world or the Roman world as some have expressed.
So
I agree with you, that is not fulfilled according to his specific words
when
speaking of the preaching of Christians. But it is a TRUE staement when
he
includes as part of the "good news" about God the testimony seen around
the
world via nature and the heavens. So nothing is contradicted.
> And there it is! You see folks, if the prophecy
> was fulfilled, that means it that it was not fulfilled,
> because no matter what, it has to be about HIM,
> IN HIS DAY, which just so happens to be in his
> generation, right now, today!
>
This was not a PROPHECY. It was a statement, quoting
Psalms about how nature testifies to the "good news" and
God and Christ. It was a quote, which you must include
in the context of Paul's reference. The "good news" to
all creation includes the testimony of nature, so he was
making an allegory. And there is no "prophecy" involved.
> And how much do you want to bet, that although
> the other idiots like him stated that a Biblical
> generation is 40 years (which is correct) and so,
> it must be about them (the generation just before
> his, that he will claim that a generation is more
> than 40 years!
No I don't. "This generation" is in the context of the end-times
and when the signs would begin. Jesus gave all these signs
that would happen before the messiah would appear and he
noted that they would all occur within a "generation" of when
those signs began. So "this generation" is in the context of
the 40 years from the first sign. That first sign was a world war, which
was "nation vs nation and kingdom versus kingdom" and thus 1914. So by 40
years later or by 1954 "all these things" were to take place. The last
sign
was the appearance of the "sign of the son of man." But this would be
after
the "great tribulation" takes place and the restoration of the Jews to
Palestine. That "great tribulation" indeed occurred, which was the
Holocaust, and the Jews set up the state of Israel in 1948, which is
before
1954. The messiah is born and tested for 40 years before the 70th week,
which begins in 1989, so he must be born 40 years earlier, or be in his
40th
year and thus 1949-1950 at the latest. This is when the "sign of the son
of man" would begin to appear to the "eagles" who watch over the messiah
like eagles surrounding a carcass: "Where the carcass is, so the eagles
will be gathered." It is they who see the "sign of the son of man" and
mourn over the messiah, because the sign depicts the messiah as a
"carcass"
or as a dead messiah, so they mourn over him when they see that sign.
But
that sign would have or should have begun to appear by at least 1950,
which
is still prior to 1954.
So SORRY, NOT ME! I don't extend the "generation" reference past 40
years.
BUT, you have a catch-22 for this reference!! That's because, Jesus did
say
"some standing here would not die before I arrive"! That included John,
who
would not die until Jesus returned some 1900 years later!! So
technically,
since John was not to die at all, and he was part of that generation of
Jesus' day, some from that generation would not pass away until "all these
things" occurred. So it works out as well because some from Jesus'
generation would not die until the second coming!
So you have a CHOICE for this to be fulfilled if you wish:
1) A generation of 40 years from the first sign, which is WWI in 1914 to
1954, which would see all these things occur, including the Holocaust and
the return of the Jews to Palestine, which did occur, along with the birth
of the messiah by 1950, which may or may not have occurred, but which the
world would not have known about, because it is secretive, only for the
"eagles" to see him.
2) Or, since some from Jesus' generation like John and Paul who would
indeed
not die until Christ returned, living over 1900 years down to our time,
then
it could be said that "this generation would not pass away until all these
things occur" since obviously Paul and John are part of that generation of
the 1st century. Of note, it was necessary to have some members of the
12
tribes who could prove their lineage at that time to survive down to
modern
times to marry into the modern population in time for descendants from the
12 tribes to be present in the earth again so that 12,000 from each of the
12 tribes could become the 144,000 root members in the kingdom. The root
is
10% (Isa 6:13), meaning the other 90% of the members of the temple class
1,296,000 would be grafted in gentiles. It was the only way to fulfill
this
since the Jews in exile would obviously loose track of the 12 tribes,
which
in fact, even in Jesus' day were individuals from the various tribes
living
together, not seprate tribes in any sense. John was chosen not to die.
John 21: 22 Jesus said to him: "If it is my will for him to remain until I
come, of what concern is that to you? You continue following me." 23 In
consequence, this saying went out among the brothers, that that disciple
would not die."
Again, since John would not die and he was part of that generation in
Jesus'
day, it would be true that that generation would not pass away before his
return, even though it was clearly going to be over 1900 years away.
Even so, if Jesus by saying "this generation" was in reference to the
generation of the second coming, that being 40 years from the beginning of
the first sign, then that is fulfilled as well, and that is my preferred
first choice of what Jesus meant. The generation that would experience
"all
these things" would not pass away before all things occurred. Just as the
generation after the Exodus was 40 years, the Jews would have understood
this was all going to occur within a generation, which it does.
Everything
occurred between 1914-1954!!
So please don't put ME into the same category of someone running from the
40-year generation, or trying to extend the basic meaning of a
"generation"
(even though, Biblically, it can also be 80 years, Ps. 90:10). Though
technically since some from Jesus' generation would indeed still be alive
when he returned, there is still no contradiction for someone who INSISTED
upon claiming Jesus was talking about those of his own generation. That
works too.
And hey, maybe he'll note the
> 1967 war and claim 70 years and so, it means
> that it will happen in 2037 AD!
Not ME!! I don't have any reference to what happens in 1967,
specifically,
though the Bible might include that in some prophecy. 1967 is 20 years
after 1947. ??? Doesn't ring any bells. Something is supposed to happen
in the middle of the 49-year period from 1947-1996, thus around 1971, but
that's a negative thing in relation to the messiah. (24+1947=1971-1972)
So
the 1967 incident is not Biblically significant to any fundamental
chronology that I know of. It was just Israel successfully being blessed
and protected by YHWH as he promised. The Jews are still God's chosen
people until the end of the Covenant, which ended in 1996. "God's
chosen
people" and priesthood ****fts from the physical to the spiritual when the
new temple of 1,440,000 members are sealed into the kingdom, with 10% of
them being natural Jews.
Another curiousity now that this has come up. It does seem that the
covenant with natural Israel is no longer significant, because the kingdom
will not be set up in Israel when the millennium begins, but in Honolulu.
So once the covenant ended in 1996 for the Jews and JWs (i.e. Christians)
then physical Israel no longer is of significance either, it's spiritual
Israel. Interesting.
And why will he
> do that?! Because when he claimed a 40 year
> generation and it didn't work in 2007 AD, well,
> he had to come up with something, didn't he?!
>
NOT ME!!! My 40-year generation is from when the first sign begins. You
can't say, "THIS generation will not pass away until all these things" and
mean a generation which would not experience these things. So it is
clearly
and easily in the context of all these things happening within a 40-year
period, which must begin with the very first sign, which is a world war.
This limits the fulfillment and the context of the things that would occur
around the time of the second coming. So all these things do occur
between
1914-1954. Keep in mind, this could not happen in the 1st century because
the "great tribulation" is a ONE-TIME EVENT. It is something that never
happened before nor would happen again in history. And this "great
tribulation" was always prophesied in the context of the end-times in
Daniel.
Now again, YOU must accurately understand the Bible in this case:
1) The "great tribulation" is not Armageddon but the Holocaust. It is
completely over before the messiah even arrives: "Immediately after the
tribulation of those days...the sign of the son of man will appear."
Armageddon is global. Women without children can't hide out in the
mountains to escape. So first get out of your brain that the "great
tribulation" is Armageddon. It is, in fact, WWII and the Holocaust.
2) The "end of the system of things" is also not the end of the world,
but
the end of the current Jewish system of things at that time under gentile
rule. So the Jews when speaking about the "end" meant the end of gentile
rule and when they would reestablish their own independent rule in their
promised land. So the "end" actually did occur in 1947. 1947 is the "end
of the system of things" prophesied by Matthew 24. This is NOT a
reference
to the end of the world. The "end of the system of things" is a direct
exchange for the "end of the gentile times". It ends 1290 days after the
"da****ng of the holy ones to pieces" by the "disgusting thing causing
desolation" (i.e. the "Mysteries" inspired Nazis), and the actual second
coming would occur 45 years after that in 1992. But the birth of the
messiah and the appearance of the "sign of the son of man" would begin to
appear at his birth, which must be at least 40 years earlier than 1989,
which means by 1949-1950. But if you want a generation optionally to be
80 years (Ps 90:10) then that will work too, since 80 years after 1914 is
1994 and the second coming in 1992 is before that ends.
So there are really three ways to fulfill this with no problem. Though
the
40-year reference from 1914-1954 would clearly be the natural reference to
the context here.
> But hey... He's a good, honest Bible interpreter
> and we should all follow his lead, right guys?!
>
Don't follow me. Follow the BIBLE. But don't misquote the Bible.
Thanks again for making me take a second look at Paul's words about the
gospel going worldwide in his day. I was just repeating what I had
thought
was an adequate explanation by some others. I stand corrected. Paul's
statement was a quote from Psalms and how nature is a testimony to God and
Christ world wide.
> He is just like the evolutionists, who think that all
> proof is given, by just saying that it took more time!
> And so now, it will be whatever he needs!
>
Not me!!! Everything works perfectly for me.
> And his proof that the prophecy was not REALLY
> FULFILLED when the prophecy was fulfilled,
> according to Paul?
>
Again, it was NOT a prophecy, just a statement in the context of the
testimony of nature that expresses the gospel to "all creation" the world
over. So now, no more misquoting Paul for you, right? I stand corrected
but you can't say this was a "prophecy" and you can't quote him out of
context of his Psalmic allegory!
> And it never occurs to him that the fact that these
> prophecies were fulfilled, means that the second
> coming had to have happened, since Jesus said...
>
> "And this Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached
> in all the world as a witness to all the nations,
> AND THEN the end will come." - Matthew 24:14
>
> Note: AND THEN THE END WILL COME !!!
>
Yes it DID! The "END" came in 1947. Jesus was not talking about the end
of
the world as we know it or Armageddon, but the "end of the gentile times"
the END of the "appointed times of the nations." The "system of things"
the Jews were under at that time was under gentile rule. That system of
things would end when the Jews were in charge of their own country again,
which occurred in 1947!! So the "end" did come in 1947. The end of the
gentile times and the end of the 1290 days!!! This did occur before 1954,
which ended a generation of 40 years of the first sign, which was a world
war, WWI. So everything was fulfilled! The messiah was born by
1949-1950,
and became the messiah in 1992.
> Or should we now make something up on the fly
> and pretend that "and then" means, "thousands
> of years away" and also pretend that we didn't
> see the part where Paul said the Gospel was
> already preached to all the world?
>
Nope. It's your own imagination going wild here. No
need for that in this case!
> Oh, I know, I know... You cannot fathom it,
> because you believe the garbage that you
> were taught, that Jesus moves out of Heaven
> and comes and lives here, as if Heaven isn't
> good enough and does so for 1,000 years
> and then says, "Psyche!" and lets the Devil
> lose after that, 'cause He was just playing
> with you, with that whole "peace" thing, right?! :)
>
Jesus ruled with 1,440,000 other king-priests. Try to
keep up. How effective would it be if all those king-priests
were trying to manage things on the earth from heaven?
It would be a SECOND coming if Christ didn't appear in the flesh a SECOND
time. Satan is let loose to test those who live under messianic rule to
see who would rebel under perfect conditions and under Christ's
government.
Some still do. In fact, Satan reinspired "Gog of Magog" to show up, which
are Nazis.
But we sort of can understand that, right? I mean, in a world where
everybody is equal and multicultural, it means nobody is really going to
be
rich. No servants to take care of your mansion and your lawn the size of
a
golf course, right? If you're RICH in this world, it competes with the
simple life of people who have to do their own laundry, grow their own
food.
Work and take care of themselves. Everyone under their own vine and fig
tree. Now those going to heaven will have the lifestyle of the rich and
famous, but not people living forever on the earth as equals. Life will
be
simple. So the people who like being rich and who have a reputation for
thinking they are better than everybody else throughout history, probably
will not be as happy in a multi-cultural society of equals with no lower
class. So Satan takes advantage of that and inspires them to rebel
against
Christ. Unfortunate, but classic. Anyway, it is very difficult for a
"rich man" to get into the kingdom and we all know who likes being "rich"
in
the world.
> It never occurs to you, that you are misreading
> Scripture! It simply just never occurs to you!
>
In fact, you have shown that I had! Now I stand corrected. But you are
misreading some things too! And ultimately some things will vary in
perceived fulfillment based entirely on interpretation. But the way I
interpret the scriptures is 100% fulfilled. So I'm glad. If your
interpretation is not being fulfilled, maybe your interpretation is
wrong...
(smile).
> And btw, how many comings are there anyway?
Just TWO!
> And why do you call it the "Second Coming",
> when you believe in four of them?!
>
Two times in the flesh.
> 1) Jesus' earthly ministry.
Yes the first coming.
> 2) The rapture (invisible). NO! You are misinterpreting the rapture.
> See when Christ comes the second time as a man, he rules in the flesh
for
> 1000 years. Then Satan is relased to test post-millennial mankind.
> Christ as the 1,440,000 king-priests are all on the earth as humans at
> this time. Satan's test would typically take 40 years. Then those who
> rebel with Satan, "Gog of Magog" (Nazism, racists) will be destroyed
along
> with Satan. Then comes Judgment Day. Christ and the 1,440,000 will
then
> judge the survivors of the millennium first, and then all the people who
> have lived and then died will start to be resurrected. This process
will
> probably take 80 years. It is only after the last person is judged and
> death is no more that the RAPTURE occurs. But Christ is on the earth
when
> the rapture happens. So what happens is Christ along with the Bride
Class
> are changed within a twinkling of an eye and "meet the lord in the sky"
on
> their way back up to heaven. There is nothing that indicates that
Christ
> is coming from heaven at the time of the rapture, which he is not. So
#2
> is not a valid "coming" of the Christ. He is on the earth when the
Bride
> Class is raptured!! Glad I was able to help you understand this.
> 3) 1,000 year reign.
Sorry, but the 1000-year reign is part of the Second Coming, a
continuation
of that when Christ is human again after 1992. So so far, just a first
and
second coming. You are imagining more than the Bible establishes. So so
far, still only two!!
> 4) Judgment. Judgment Day, as I explained above, is an extension of
when
> Christ is on the earth at the second coming. He is in a fleshy body
from
> 1992 through the millennium, through Satan's last test and then through
> Judgment Day. Then the rapture takes place and he and the Bride Class
> meet in the air on their way to heaven.
Simple. Not 4 comings, just two!
> I don't think one has to have a doctorate in math
> to know that that doesn't add up to TWO, FOLKS!!!
>
Of course, you're mistaken in your count. There are only two referenes.
The others are your misconceptions, but that's normal. I'm glad I was
able
to correct you.
> Now you can go ahead and quote Rev 20:4 to me,
> as if as a pastor, I have never read it and assume
> that you couldn't possibly have it wrong and that
> it cannot possibly be read any way, but the way
> that you read it, but that would be your ignorance,
> not mine!
>
No problem with fulfilling Rev 20:4. It just means the 1,440,000 are with
Christ to share in the 1000-year reign, that's all, and that includes
Christian martyrs who are resurrected already. No problemo.
> And btw, you go ahead and enjoy that idea that...
>
> "Scripture is not fulfilled, until it happens in my time,
> even when it is proved that it has been, since I can
> just add words to the passages to make it appear
> as if it hasn't been and of course, I am humble
> and I have no vanity, nor is my view of the Bible
> guided by my vanity!"
>
NO. This is an incompetent view that can only be maintained if you ignore
the CHRONOLOGY. Again. The second coming occurs to fulfill the "7 times"
which is 2520 years after the fall of Jerusalem. Period. The second
coming
is exactly 45 years after the 1290 days end, which ends the "gentile
times"
which occurred in 1947. Period. You can't just switch around events and
make them work when you have absolute dates to fulfill like this. There
is
ZERO flexibility, though you think there is unlimited flexibility. That
is
where you are mistaken.
> Otay! <chuckle>
>
OTAY?!! Got that? CHRONOLOGY is your problem. It's not about the signs,
but the chronology. Signs can happen anytime and can be interpreted many
ways. The chronology simply establish these signs occurring in
conjunction
with that generation. The chronology goes all the way from the time of
the Exodus to 1996!!! So your position is incompetent when you think its
just about the signs. There is ZERO FLEXIBILITY when the chronology is
factored in. Unless you think the Jews ended gentile rule in other than
1947? Seems to me they had no official country until November 30, 1947.
So how flexible is that? This is a one-time fulfillment on the heels of
the
worst tragedy in Jewish history, the Holocaust, which was the "great
tribulation" prophesied about. So SORRY, you're out of touch.
> --
> The Last Days were in the first century:
>
It depends on what the "last days" refere to. The last days before what?
Technically, if you consider the the 7th Creative day is 7000 years long,
and you consider the last 2 days before the millennium, which is 2000
years,
then that can easily include the first century. The last days before the
millennium would be 2000 years from 30 CE, right? 30-2030 are the "last
days" before the second coming or the millennium. So sure, the last days
BEGAN in the 1st century, if you insist. Works for me.
> Speaking to His disciples that were standing
> in front of Him, Jesus said...
>
> Luke 21:20-22
>
> 20) And when YE shall see JERUSALEM compassed
> with armies, then know that the desolation
> THEREOF IS NIGH.
> 21) Then let them which are IN JUDEA flee to
> the mountains; and let them which are in the
> midst of it depart out; and let not them that
> are in the countries enter thereinto.
> 22) For THESE be the days of vengeance, that
> ALL THINGS WHICH ARE WRITTEN, MAY BE FULFILLED.
>
Luke does not mention Daniel or the "great tribulation." Only Matthew and
Mark do. The fall of Jerusalem was part of what was to be fulfilled.
But
it is clear that after the fall of Jerusalem the "appointed times of the
nations" would continue!!
LUKE 21: 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led
captive
into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations,
UNTIL THE APPOINTED TIMES OF THE NATIONS ARE FULFILLED.
So clearly, the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE does not bring the "end" of the
gentile times. Christ's second coming would occur only after the Jewish
state is reestablished and thus after the "end of the system of things" or
the gentile times!! So the "distress" of Jerusalem being destroyed in 70
CE is not the same as the "great tribulation" of Daniel, which is an
end-times event within a generation of the appearance of the messiah. Now
Jerusalem's fall has parallels to the Nazi destruction of the Jews as "Gog
of Magog" but it is not the same event. The Roman army surrounded
Jerusalem in 70 CE, and the Nazis surround anti-typical Jerusalem, which
is
Warsaw, Poland for the Jews in exile before it destroys them. So there
is a parallel but two different events. The final event "great
tribulation"
would come at the very end of the "appointed times of the nations".
Christ
says when the fig tree begins to bud again then "know he's near at the
doors". That is a reference for when the state of Irsael would have been
restored. Only after that would Christ soon arrive or be born, which
would
be by 1949-1950 to fulfill prophecy. The Jewish state was reborn on
November 30, 1947. So that's pretty soon after that and definitely before
1954, a generation of 40 years after the first sign, WWI.
Thanks for your discussion. I learned a lot!!! And now have a greater
appreciation of Paul's words!!!
Lars
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