"Paul said that he thought Sudar Singh died
sometime around 1936-37. It turns out that
Sudarshan Singh died in December of 1936.
The next year, in 1937, the fifth Sant Sat Guru,
Babuji, moved to Agra, to bring the center for
the Parent Faith back to its origins."
[Based on: Dialogue in the Age of Criticism,
Chap. 12 - Doug Marman]
Who cares about "Sudarshan Singh" anyway,
when searching for the date when Sudar Singh
died? Harold already gave the date when Sudar
Singh "seems to have" died.
"As we began research in a number of different
areas around the world, we got re****ts that Sudar
Singh had lived and really was an ECK Master. Many
ECKists have experiences with Rebazar Tarzs, Yaubl
Sacabi, Fubbi Quantz, and other ECK Masters, but
very few see Sudar Singh. As it turns out, he did live
and work in Allahabad. Paul mentioned he died
around the 1940s, but it seems to have been around
1955."
[Based on: Harold Klemp, The Secret Teachings, p. 246]
Gee whiz! It "seems to have been around 1955."
Well, why then and not the 1940s or earlier? Could
it be because Sudar Singh was re****tedly visiting
Paul Twitchell in New York City? Or, was it Kirpal
Singh visiting Paul Twitchell in Wa****ngton D.C.?
[Not to mention the references to Sudar Singh in
Letters to Gail which appear to reference him in
the "present tense". Or, was it even Sudar Singh
to begin with, when it was Kirpal Singh before the
name change?]
"[....] Among my numerous discourses from many
gurus in the flesh and those on the inner planes are
those taken down when Sudar Singh appeared in my
apartment in New York City in his light body, although
his flesh self was six thousand miles away in India.
This is also true of Rebazar Tarzs, a Tibetan monk,
who appears quite frequently in my home. Last fall
[Summer 1964?] he dictated a book-length manu-
script called 'The Far Country.' [....]"
[Based on: ECKANKAR, Compiled Writings
Volume 1, Paul Twitchell (Copyright 1975 by
Gail T. Gross), p. 12]
[That was a 1975 copyright source. The next
quote appears to reference an earlier work.]
*********
[5] Paul Twitchell, Introduction to Eckankar (Las
Vegas: Illuminated Way Press, 1966), pages 2-6.]
In the original article, Twitchell had mentioned
Kirpal Singh three times; in the revised edition his
name has been changed to read "Sudar Singh."
The original reads:
"Kirpal Singh who is still at his own ashram in
India, has the ability to appear to his own people,
in his Nuri Sarup body, no matter where they may
be. A skill which almost anybody can learn who
gets the knack of bilocation. Among my numerous
discourses from many gurus in the flesh and those
on the inner planes, are those taken down when
Kirpal Singh appeared in my apartment in Wa****ng-
ton, D.C., in his light body, although his flesh self
was six-thousand miles away in India."
The revised article, with name replacements,
reads:
"Sudar Singh, who lived in his ashram in India,
had the ability to appear to his own people in his
Atma Sarup body, no matter where they might be.
A skill almost anyone can learn who gets the knack
of Soul Travel. . . Among my numerous discourses
from many gurus in the flesh and those on the inner
planes, are taken down when Sudar Singh appeared
in my apartment in New York City, in his light body,
although his flesh self was six thousand miles away
in India."
[Based on: ttp://www.geocities.com/eckcult/chapters/tmsm5.html]
[Is that second quote a typo? A misquote?]
*********
I'm under the impression the stays in New York
& Wa****ngton D.C. happened after 1945:
"[....] He and Camille were married in Providence,
Rhode Island, in 1942. When he got out of the navy
in 1945, they moved to New York. Paul wandered
around a bit, and eventually took a job with the navy
as the Wa****ngton, D.C., correspondent for Our Navy
magazine. He kept copies of a lot of letters written
from Wa****ngton, D.C., or the Wa****ngton Press
Club, so we know he worked there for quite a while.
[....]"
[Based on: Article (Early Commitments) @[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Evidently, there is evidence to suggest that -
in the Eckankar writings - all three (Kirpal Singh,
Sudar Singh, & Rebazar Tarzs had the ability to
visit Paul Twitchell - although their "flesh self"
was miles away. Also, that some of the teachings
that were given out to the world about "Eckankar"
had come from these re****ted visits. (Never mind
that some of the words re****ted to have come
from those individuals can be found in earlier
published works familiar to Paul Twitchell.)
[Was it Kirpal Singh visiting Paul Twitchell in
Wa****ngton D.C., Sudar Singh visiting in N.Y.
and Rebazar Tarzs visiting in California? Or,
is it possible the "actual" timeline had Kirpal
Singh visiting in N.Y., Sudar Singh visiting in
Wa****ngton D.C. and Rebazar Tarzs visiting
in Seattle & San Francisco???]
IMO, the words "flesh self" are im****tant to
keep in mind. Especially when checking for a
possible date of translation (death) for Sudar
Singh. (Not to mention, the re****ted physical
existence for Sudar Singh and Rebazar Tarzs
- for those who now argue Rebazar Tarzs was
never described as a real "physical" human
identity.
According to the first quote on this page:
"Paul said that he thought Sudar Singh died
sometime around 1936-37."
According to the second quote on this page:
"Paul mentioned he died around the 1940s, but
it seems to have been around 1955."
IMO, the death of Sudar Singh would have to
occur AFTER his "flesh self" was living in India at
the time he was last visiting with Paul Twitchell.
When that date of last visit actually was, that is
not so clear to me because I have to look at the
earlier references when Sudar Singh was Kirpal
Singh. At any rate, at least, you can't have the
"flesh self" of Sudar Singh living at a time AFTER
he was said to have already died. IMO, that would
not appear to jive.
So, the death of Sudar Singh - this person who
actually lived (according to re****ts on the "Looking
at Sudar Singh" thread) took place around 1955
(seems to have been around 1955).
OK, well at least that much seems to fit.
Etznab
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