On Apr 3, 9:32=A0pm, "JerryCic" <Jerry...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> Eckankar dictionary
> 1978
>
> Page 72
>
> Jesus
> An ECK Chela under Zadok, the ECK Master in Judea, who gave him the
basic
> fundamentals of ECKANKAR, and out of this knowledge came what is known
as
> Christianity; The Mahanta conciousness as the vehicle for the SUGMAD as
IT=
> appeared to the Christians. See MAHANTA.
>
> The same definition is also for KRISHNA.
>
> Jerry
>
> "Etznab" <etz...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
>
news:23dfded0-6fb7-49d7-b2e3-dcc5d5cadefe@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Apr 2, 10:07 pm, "JerryCic" <Jerry...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > During several talks that he gave in the 90's and early 2000's, he has
> > stated that he was not the Mahanta, and that Paul T was the Mahanta.
>
> > On at least two occasions in the last 10 years, He was announced as
the
> > Mahanta, And the first words out of his mouth was that he was not the
> > Mahanta and that Paul T was.
>
> > On at least one occasion, He explained a little about the fact that he
> > attempted to take on the responsibilities of the mahanta consciousness
i=
n
> > the 70's but was unable to become stable in that state.
>
> > his own words escape me but i believe he used the word "dabble". I
think=
> > he
> > wanted to establish that Paul was and is the Mahanta. In 1971 on the
tap=
e
> > of
> > his first world wide talk, he stated that Paul is the Mahanta and
would
> > continue to be for the next few hundred years.
>
> > It is also of interest to note that Paul T stated in a tape in 1971
that=
> > his
> > prediction of his translation in 1971 was correct. Paul then explained
> > that
> > the masters had granted him 5 more years.
>
> > In my opinion those 5 years ended in about 1976. That is when the best
> > years
> > of Darwin's outer stature began to subside. That is when in my
opinion,
> > the
> > teachings kind of went underground. The golden times of Paul T had
ended=
..
> > and the currents began to diverge.
>
> > In my opinion the teachings are alive and well, but not as they were
in
> > the
> > Paul T times.
> > With respect for the current expression of Eckankar and Harold's
mission=
> > with regards to Eckankar, I do not wish to discuss who is the Mahanta.
I=
f
> > you look up Jesus in the eckankar dictionary, it states something to
the=
> > effect that he was the Mahanta consciousness as it appeared to his
> > followers. In other words it is by far more im****tant that one becomes
> > familiar with the inner master and all its magnificence and wisdom. In
> > deed
> > the inner master is the perfect counterpart to the imperfect human
self.=
> > It
> > is not im****tant to know who is the master. But when we flirt with
> > prospect
> > that such things can be known, then the razors edge becomes
exceedingly
> > sharp.
>
> > J
>
> > "Etznab" <etz...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
>
>news:cb7a80d0-41c3-41b8-8c9d-78731050997c@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On Mar 31, 3:32 pm, Michael Turner <Michael112...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > Great tape, with a wonderful and inspiring satsang given by Darji at
> > > the Third International Eckankar Youth Conference in Los Angeles,
> > > California, less than a year into his tenure as the Mahanta, the
> > > Living Eck Master. Sri Darwin covers a lot of ground, and his
> > > humility, profound devotion to His Master and His love for Eck is a
> > > wonder and inspiration to behold.
>
> > > There are also some lovely creative arts, mostly singing on side 2
of
> > > the tape, or disk 2 of the cd set.
>
> > > Much love in the LightSong Eternal,
>
> > > Michael Turner
>
> > Michael,
>
> > Do you know of a place where Darwin talks about
> > the difference between the "Mahanta" & the "Living
> > Eck Master" in his own words? A tape, a book, or
> > whatever?
>
> > I know that it could seem like various terms for
> > the "Master" are used interchangeably - at least
> > in some of the Eckankar literature, however, I'm
> > curious about how Darwin might have spoke on
> > this subject.
>
> > Doug Marman (if my memory is correct) gave
> > the dates 1973 & 1974 when Darwin Gross was
> > announced and/or referred to as the "Mahanta",
> > etc.
>
> > "... by the end of 1973 and early 1974 Darwin was
> > being introduced as the Mahanta, the Living ECK
> > Master, at all the major seminars, and in the ECK
> > publications."
>
> > [See: Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 12]
>
> > Earlier, it looked like you were saying 1972. Is
> > this correct, do you know?
>
> > I'm asking because I'm doing reasearch on the
> > two terms from an historical perspective. Along
> > with the different words used to describe these
> > over time.
>
> > Etznab
>
> JerryCic,
>
> =A0 =A0You wrote:
>
> "If you look up Jesus in the eckankar dictionary,
> it states something to the effect that he was the
> Mahanta consciousness as it appeared to his
> followers."
>
> =A0 =A0I doubt it. Perhaps you would care to give the
> book and page number. I suspect that Jehovah
> would be closer to the truth. As for Jesus, that
> definition you gave does not appear in my copy
> of Eckankar Dictionary, or Eckankar Lexicon.
>
> *********
>
> =A0 =A0It was interesting what you said about the
> word "mahanta". Because, if the "Mahanta"
> is equivalent to the "inner form" of the Living
> Eck Master, I would question what becomes
> of that once the L.E.M. translates or names
> a successor.
>
> =A0 =A0For example, is the "Mahanta" the "inner
> form" of all L.E.M.'s? And if not, what is?
>
> =A0 =A0Also, how is it that one embodiment can
> lay claim to the "mahanta consciousness"
> or the "Mahanta"? Especially when there
> is evidence, IMO, to suggest that all people
> have this within themselves, be it in latent
> form.
>
> =A0 =A0Also, you wrote:
>
> "With respect for the current expression of Eckankar
> and Harold's mission with regards to Eckankar, I do
> not wish to discuss who is the Mahanta. If you look up
> Jesus in the eckankar dictionary, it states something
> to the effect that he was the Mahanta consciousness
> as it appeared to his followers. In other words it is by
> far more im****tant that one becomes familiar with the
> inner master and all its magnificence and wisdom. In
> deed the inner master is the perfect counterpart to the
> imperfect human self. It is not im****tant to know who
> is the master. But when we flirt with prospect that such
> things can be known, then the razors edge becomes
> exceedingly sharp."
>
> *********
>
> =A0 =A0In this paragraph I find truth mixed with untruth. I
> don't believe Jesus was defined as the "Mahanta
> consciousness", as you put it.
>
> =A0 =A0I've only just begun looking at the historical text
> illustrations of "Mahanta" & "Living Eck Master" in
> order to research in depth the relation****p between
> the two descriptions over time. However, one thing
> that stands out to me is a quote from a very early
> Eckankar book entitled: The Key to ECKANKAR,
> copyright 1968.
>
> =A0 =A0In the Fifth Printing, 2003 edition at top of page 5:
>
> ".... Consciousness is one, manifesting in legions
> of forms or levels of consciousness. There is no one
> who is not all that is, for consciousness is not divisional,
> though expressed in an infinite series of levels. There is
> no real separation or gap in consciousness. God cannot
> be divided. .... At the center of manifestation there is only
> one God, or I AM, or Soul, or whatever name you choose
> to call IT. But IT is manifesting in legions of forms or con-
> cepts of ITSELF."
>
> =A0 =A0I believe those words were attributed to Rebazar Tarzs.
>
> =A0 =A0Something in Paul's words appears on page 14, in the
> 5th paragraph:
>
> ".... The greater the appetite for power, the less respect
> for truth. It is a self-stimulating vice, especially deadly
> when rooted in the exercise of authority and aggravated
> by intellectual conceit. That is the reason why so-called
> statesmen can be such liars."
>
> *********
>
> =A0 =A0It helps to look at quotes in context to the sections of
> book where they appear, however, I don't expect others
> to research in the same fa****on as myself. For example
> I can give another quote as an example, and others can
> go about and ask if more context is needed to fathom
> what it means.
>
> =A0 =A0"You see, the great religions of the world, however
> different in their detailed doctrines, spring from one and
> the same source: The universal religious consciousness
> of mankind, the universal impulse of one and the same
> mystical being."
>
> [Beginning on bottom of p. 8, "T.K.T.E.", 2003 version]
>
> *********
>
> =A0 =A0It's not easy, and a major paradigm ****ft I suspect,
> considering there really is only one consciousness. Or
> that what makes for differences are but manifestations
> in the form of change - principle requirements for ideas
> of time and space. This is conjecture and opinion of
> course. But I'm wondering now if all of the fighting and
> bickering people are witness to amounts to manifested
> forms in space and time living at odds with oneanother.
> One consciousness, and the viewpoint of Soul looking
> at itself in the form of different manifestations. Losing
> sight of the fact that all are connected like fragments
> from a single mirror, or puzzle.
>
> Etznab- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
JerryCic wrote:
Eckankar dictionary
1978
Page 72
Jesus
An ECK Chela under Zadok, the ECK Master in Judea,
who gave him the basic fundamentals of ECKANKAR,
and out of this knowledge came what is known as
Christianity; The Mahanta conciousness as the vehicle
for the SUGMAD as IT appeared to the Christians. See
MAHANTA.
*********
I stand corrected! Yours is an earlier (and different)
version of Eckankar dictionary than mine. What I have
is the Sixth printing, 1986, where the definition there
is essentially the same except for the last sentence:
"The Mahanta conciousness as the vehicle for the
SUGMAD as IT appeared to the Christians. See
MAHANTA."
That part doesn't appear in my copy. In fact, I still
find this definition (the one you gave) hard to believe.
It's something I'd want to see with my own eyes.
But then, there are probably lots of Eckankar
writings that I haven't seen with my own eyes. I'd
love to have a library of all the versions combined,
however, since joining only in 1987, most of the
older stuff I've had to learn from others.
Thanks for sharing that!!!
Etznab
P.S. Dear Heavens
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