On Apr 16, 1:14=A0pm, "Zadok" <nob...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> " Sword of the Spirit" <> wrote in message ...
>
> > Question. Is it therefore necessary for me to be baptized again?
>
> > Answer. Seeing that sprinkling is not a scriptural baptism, you have
nev=
er
> > been baptized. Even if you had been immersed as a baby, or as an
unsaved=
> > adult, that would not suffice, as "repentance" and "believing" must
> precede
> > the "baptizing." Mark 16 :16 ; Acts 2 : 38; 8 : 36, 37.
>
> > Question.Were babies never baptized in the New Testament?
>
> > Answer. There is not a single Scripture to say they were. Only
believers=
> > were baptized. Matt. 28 : 19 (R.V.) Acts 8:12, 37.
>
> The problem with the statements by this clown, is that they show no
> knowledge of the bible.
>
> Mark 16:16 ?????
What follows is copied without acknowledgement from
http://www.carm.org/doctrine/Mark_16_16.htm
> A textual issue with Mark 16:9-20
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0What I will share here may not be very popular with some
reader=
s.
> Therefore, I need to say upfront that I believe in the absolute
inspiratio=
n
> and authority of the Bible. =A0It is the word of God and what it says is
> authoritative. =A0However, the simple fact is that there are textual
> variations within the biblical manuscripts. =A0The originals are what
are
> inspired, not the copies. =A0We have copies of inspired do***ents.
=A0Thes=
e
> copies are not perfect, but they are very close to it.
> =A0 =A0 =A0Again, I am not saying the Bible is untrustworthy. =A0It is
98.=
5%
> textually pure. =A0The remaining 1.5% of textual variation are almost
enti=
rely
> of insignificant spelling errors and minor word omissions or additions
tha=
t
> do not change the meaning of the text. =A0However, Mark 16:9-20 is a
> significant textual variant. =A0Many scholars, Christian scholars,
conside=
r
> the ending of Mark to lack authenticity. =A0Please consider the
following
> evidence.
>
> =A0 1.. Manuscript attestation
>
> =A0 =A0 1.. Mark 16:9-20 doesn't appear in many of the oldest ancient
> manuscripts. =A0 "The last twelve verses of Mark (16:9-20) are lacking
in =
the
> two earliest parchment codices, B and Aleph, in the Old Latin manuscript
k=
,,
> the Sinaitic Syriac, many manuscripts of the Old Armenian version, the
Ady=
sh
> and Opiza manuscripts of the Old Georgian version, and a number of
> manuscripts of the Ethiopic version. =A0Clement of Alexandria, Origen,
and=
> Ammonius show no knowledge of the existence of these verses; other
Church
> Fathers state that the section is absent from Greek copies of Mark known
t=
o
> them (e.g. Jerome, Epist. =A0cxx. 3, ad hedibiam,)...The original form
of =
the
> Eusebian sections makes no provision for numbering sections after 16:8.
=
=A0Not
> a few manuscripts which contain the passage have scholia stating that
olde=
r
> Greek copies lack it =A0(so, for example, MSS. 1, 20,22, &c.), and in
othe=
r
> witnesses the passage is marked with asterisks or obeli, the
conventional
> sigla used by scribes to indicate a spurious addition to a literary
> do***ent."1
>
> =A0 2.. There is another ending to Mark.
>
> =A0 =A0 1.. Another ending is found in L, Psi, 099, 0112, and minuscules
2=
74mg
> 579, k, Syrh and more is as follows:
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 1.. "But they re****ted briefly to Peter and those with him
all=
that
> had been told. =A0And after this Jesus himself sent out by means of
them, =
from
> east to west, the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal
> salvation."
>
> =A0 3.. Apparent, theological error.
>
> =A0 =A0 1.. Mark 16:12 says, "And after that, He appeared in a different
f=
orm to
> two of them, while they were walking along on their way to the country."
> This verse may be problematic. =A0Jesus rose in the same body that he
died=
in
> (John 2:19), though it was a glorified body. =A0This is problematic
becaus=
e it
> suggests "a different form." =A0Jesus did not appear in a different
form. =
=A0He
> appeared in the same body he rose in. =A0This is a significant problem
and=
> seems to sup****t the idea that this section of scripture is spurious, a
> later addition, or a possible attempt to recount a lost section of the
> gospel.
>
> =A0 4.. Vocabulary usage.
>
> =A0 =A0 1.. There are 17 non-marcan words used in a non-marcan sense in
th=
ese
> verses. =A0In other words, in the last 11 verses under discussion there
ar=
e 17
> "new" words that don't occur in the entire gospel of Mark. =A0It appears
t=
hat
> someone wrote the ending of Mark and added it to the gospel because the
> style is different and the vocabulary is different.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0This information about the ending of Mark is not intended to
ca=
st doubt
> upon God's word. =A0But the fact is that the ending is under a large
cloud=
of
> doubt as to its authenticity. =A0I would not use it as a defense for
bapti=
smal
> regeneration.
> =A0 =A0 =A0It appears that the ending of Mark may have been lost and
someo=
ne
> rewrote it and attached it to a copy at sometime. =A0It is possible that
t=
he
> ending under question was never there to begin with.
What follows is largely pasted, without acknowledgement, from
http://jesus-messiah.com/apologetics/catholic/matthew2819.html
> Matthew 28: 19 ???????
>
> Eusebius As A Witness
>
> There were several men of this name. The one with whom we are concerned
is=
> known as Eusebius Pamphili, or Eusebius of Caesarea. He was born about
270=
> A.D. and died about 340 A.D. He lived in times of gross spiritual
darkness=
,
> he was a Trinitarian, and later in life he assisted in the preparation
of
> the Nicene Creed. Here follows the opinion of historians and others
> concerning him.
>
> "Eusebius of Caesarea, to whom we are indebted for the preservation of
so
> many contem****ary works of antiquity, many of which must have perished
had=
> he not collected and edited them" (Robert Roberts, Good Company, vol.
III,=
> page 10).
>
> "Eusebius, the greatest Greek teacher of the Church and most learned
> theologian of his time... worked untiringly for the acceptance of the
pure=
> word of the New Testament as it came from the Apostles.
Eusebius...relies
> throughout only upon ancient manuscripts, and always openly confesses
the
> truth when he cannot find sufficient testimony" (E. K. in the
> Christadelphian Monatshefte, Aug 1923; Fraternal Visitor, June 1924).
>
> "Eusebius Pamphilius, Bishop of Caesarea in Palestine, a man of vast
readi=
ng
> and erudition, and one who has acquired immortal fame by his labors in
> ecclesiastical history, and in other branches of theological learning."
Ch=
..
> ii, 9... till about 40 years of age he lived in great intimacy with the
> martyr Pamphilius, a learned and devout man of Caesarea, and founder of
an=
> extensive library there, from which Eusebius derived his vast store of
> learning. Eusebius was an impartial historian, and had access to the
best
> helps for composing a correct history which his age afforded" (J. L.
> Mosheim, editorial footnote).
>
> "Eusebius, to whose zeal we owe most of what is known of the history of
th=
e
> New Testament" (Dr. Westcott, General Survey of the History of the Canon
o=
f
> the New Testament, page 108).
>
> "The most im****tant writer in the first quarter of the fourth century
was
> Eusebius of Caesarea. Eusebius was a man of little originality or
> independent judgement. But he was widely read in the Greek Christian
> literature of the second and third centuries, the bulk of which has now
> irretrievably perished, and subsequent ages owe a deep debt to his
honest,=
> if somewhat confused, and at time not a little prejudice, erudition"
> (Peake's Bible Commentary, 1929,page 596).
>
> "Some hundred works, several of them very lengthy, are either directly
cit=
ed
> or referred to as read (by Eusebius). In many instances he would read an
> entire treatise for the sake of one or two historical notices, and must
ha=
ve
> searched many others without finding anything to serve his purpose...
Unde=
r
> the second head the most vital question if the sincerity of Eusebius.
Did =
he
> tamper with his material or not? The sarcasm of GIBBON (Decline and
Fall, =
c.
> xvi) is well known... the passages to which Gibbon refers do not bear
out
> his imputation...Eusebius contents himself with condemning these sins...
i=
n
> general terms, without entering into details...but it leaves no
imputation=
> on his honesty" (Dictionary of Christian Biography and Literature).
>
> "Eusebius was an impartial historian, and had access to the best helps
for=
> composing a correct history which his age afforded." (J. L. Mosheim: an
> editoral note).
>
> "Of the patristic witnesses to the text of the New Testament as it stood
i=
n
> the Greek MSS, from about 300-340, none is so im****tant as Eusebius of
> Caesarea, for he lived in the greatest Christian library of that age,
that=
> namely which Origen and Pamphilus had collected. It is no exaggeration
to
> say that from this single collection of manuscripts at Caesarea derives
th=
e
> larger part of the surviving ante-Nicene literature. In his library,
> Eusebius must have habitually handled codices of the Gospels older by
two
> hundred years than the earliest of the great uncials that we have now in
o=
ur
> libraries" (The Hibbert Journal, October., 1902).
>
> So much for the honesty, ability, and op****tunity of Eusebius as a
witness=
> to the text of the New Testament. Now we are ready to consider his
evidenc=
e
> on the text of Matthew 28:19.
>
> The Evidence Of Eusebius
>
> Having introduced the first witness, it is time to ascertain what he
wrote=
> concerning the text of Matthew 28:19.
>
> According to the editor of the Christadelphian Monatshefte, Eusebius
among=
> his many other writings compiled a collection of the corrupted texts of
th=
e
> Holy Scriptures, and "the most serious of all the falsifications
denounce =
by
> him, is without doubt the traditional reading of Matthew 28:19."
No such text is known to scholar****p.
> Persistent inquiry has failed to trace the compilation referred to, and
> Knupfer, the Editor, has left his last Canadian address without a trace.
> But various authorities mention "a work entitled DISCREPANCIES IN THE
> GOSPELS or QUESTIONS AND SOLUTIONS ON SOME POINTS IN THE GOSPEL HISTORY"
a=
nd
> another work on THE CONCLUDING SECTIONS OF THE GOSPELS.
The Quaestiones Ad Stephanum, and Quaestiones ad Marinum.
>
> According to F.C. Conybeare, "Eusebius cites this text again and again
in
> his works written between 300 and 336, namely in his long commentaries
on
> the Psalms, on Isaiah, his Demonstratio Evangelica, his Theophany ...in
hi=
s
> famous history of the Church, and in his panegyric of the emperor
> Constantine. I have, after a moderate search in these works of Eusebius,
> found eighteen citations of Matthew xxviii. 19, and always in the
followin=
g
> form: "
>
> =A0 "Go ye and make disciples of all the nations in my name, teaching
them=
to
> observe all things, whatsoever I commanded you."
Finally, without indicating this, this is by 'Zadok'.
> =A0 A quick study of biblical sources, in fact show us that any place
that=
> Jesus mentions baptism, is a later addition by the early christian
church.=
It's best not to borrow the clothes of others.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
|
