Re: THE PROBLEM WITH THE HISTORICITY OF JESUS

On 14 May, 17:23, Andrew <thecr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On 2008-05-14 12:54:23 +0100,Roger Pearse<roger.pea...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
sai=
d:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 6 May, 23:32, Andrew <thecr...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> >> On 2008-05-06 16:23:11 +0100, "Bill M" <wm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> said:
>
> >>> More evidence that sup****ts the fact that Jesus the Christ
> >>> is pure myth and fable.
>
> >>> "The_Sage" <The_S...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
> >>>news:j2bv14t46lm2b3r3t3a032qqmcd6ts0rsn@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>> For being considered the most influential person in all of history,
i=
t is
> >>>> strange that of the 29 first century historians who existed at the
ti=
me of
> >>>> Jesus, none of them mention Jesus at all...
>
> >>>> 1. Philo Judaeus
>
> > A philosopher, not a historian.
>
> >>>> 2. Apollonius of Tyana
>
> >> Virtually no writings survive
>
> >>>> 3. Valerius Maximus
>
> >> Not a historian - wrote a manual on "historical tales for
rhetoricians"=

> >> based largely on Roman history
>
> >>>> 4. Marcus Manilius
>
> >> Not a historian - a poet and astrologer
>
> >>>> 5. Velleius Paterculus
>
> >> A historian, but dead before the crucifixion (19 BC - 31 AD)
>
> >>>> 6. Quintus Curtius Rufus
>
> >> Only surviving work is an autobiography of Alexander the Great.
Oddly,
> >> Jesus doesn't appear.
>
> >>>> 7. Pomponius Mela
>
> >> Not a historian - a geographer
>
> >>>> 8. Lucius Annaeus Seneca
>
> >> Not a historian - a very bright man, but not a historian
>
> >>>> 9. Petronius Arbiter
>
> >> Not a historian - a satirist
>
> >>>> 10. C. Musonius Rufus
>
> > Not a historian -- a philosopher, none of whose works now exist.
>
> >>>> 11. Aulus Persius Flaccus
>
> >> Not a historian - a poet and satirist
>
> >>>> 12. Marcus Annaeus Lucanus
>
> >> Only surviving historical work concerns the Roman Civil War. Oddly,
> >> does not mention Jesus
>
> >>>> 13. Hero(n) of Alexandria
>
> >> Not a historian - a mathematician and engineer
>
> >>>> 14. Geminus
>
> >> Not a historian - a mathematician and astronomer
>
> >>>> 15. Lucius Junius Moderatus Columella
>
> > Not a historian -- a writer on agriculture.
>
> >>>> 16. Cleomedes
>
> >> Not a historian - an astronomer
>
> >>>> 17. Phaedrus
>
> >> Not a historian - a writer of fables in imitation of Aesop
>
> >>>> 18. Dioscorides
>
> >> Not a historian - a physician and pharmacologist
>
> >>>> 19. Plutarch of Chaeronea
>
> >> A historian whose only extant works in this field focus on Alexander,
> >> Pliny and Herodotus. Oddly, does not mention Jesus
>
> >>>> 20.Justus of Tiberias
>
> > A historian whose work is lost and is anyway described by Photius as
> > very brief and largely fictitious.
>
> >>>> 21. Pliny the Elder (Gaius Plinius Secundus)
>
> > His history is lost; the surviving work is a National History,
> > discussing drugs etc.
>
> >>>> 22. Dio Chrysostom (Cocceianus Dio)
>
> >> Regarded as a historian by his contem****aries but no historical works
s=
urvive
>
> >>>> 23. Marcus Fabius Quintilianus
>
> >> Only extant work is a textbook on rhetoric
>
> >>>> 24. Publius Papinius
>
> > Publius Papinius **Statius**, you mean? =A0A poet, not a historian.
>
> >>>> 25. Dio of Prusa
>
> >> Same person as Dio Chrysostom!!!
>
> >>>> 26. Silius Italicus
>
> >> Not a historian - a poet. Only surviving work an epic based on the
Puni=
c wars
>
> >>>> 27. ***tus Julius Frontinus
>
> >> Not a historian - a soldier and administrator
>
> >>>> 28. Marcus Valerius Martialus
>
> >> Not a historian - read his "Epigrams".
>
> >>>> 29. Hierocles of Alexandria
>
> >> Writing in the 5th Century AD by which time Christianity was the
> >> official religion of the Empire!!!
>
> >> You see Bill? You'll accept any old piffle if it fits in with your
> >> prejudices. "The Sage" trawls anti-Christian websites and just
accepts
> >> everything he reads entirely uncritically. That's why I killfiled him
-=

> >> he can't accept that there is a difference between 'fact' and his
> >> prejudices.
>
> > Such people are very, very disreputable. =A0Atheism does not benefit
> > from trying to misrepresent the past, and it injures the unwary.
>
> Agreed Roger. I have a healthy respect for people who are honest and
> open-minded in their atheism.

Me too, and I wish there were more of them and fewer of the other
sort.

> As with Christianity, uncritical dogmatism and dishonesty serve nobody.

I wouldn't have thought so.  Likewise self-deception (whoever does
it).

Great post, by the way; few can be bothered to go through such lists,
and I'm glad that you did.

All the best,

Roger Pearse