On Thu, 8 May 2008 10:50:31 +0100, "Bill M" <wmech@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
>5-5-2008
>
>
>
>This is both an invitation and a challenge to religionists to provide
>objective verifiable evidence that there is some REAL God that we need to
>cater to.
>
It would no longer be a matter of faith if we could empirically prove
God's existence, but we can get closer to a proof than is possible in
many other situations which we accept and get along with. Can you
"prove" that the sun won't super nova soon? My "belief" is that it
won't, and I'll go on living for several more years.
>
>
>A primary one is that there are thousands of different gods and god
beliefs.
>Any REAL god would surely make it abundantly clear, that he is the real
god
>and all the others are fakes. He would surely use his unlimited power to
>expose and eliminate all the fakes. Why would he permit his creations to
be
>misled by all these false gods?
>
How would the one true God teach us to avoid falling into wor****ping
these false gods if he imposed the restrictions upon us that you
suggest? The main reason for our participation in this mortal phase of
"hands-on" learning is to mature us into reliable, sovereign, immortal
individuals who won't blunder back into these things again. Learning
by trial and error is a very effective means of developing and
maturing us into the kind of beings God wants us to become.
>
>If there was a REAL god, would he not destroy the thousands of false gods
>and
>
No, He would let us have our go at these false gods and in the process
we are expected to learn and mature. We don't have to become
personally involved in wor****ping these false gods, but we do have to
observe and learn from the long term effects upon those who do wor****p
them.
>
>establish his authenticity, wishes and commands directly from his heaven.
>
If God actually did this, we would be nothing more than puppets. This
isn't what God wants us to be. The goal for each of us is to mature
into absolute sovereign, immortal beings who won't ever want to go
back and explore these false gods and other such things again.
>
>If man, created by god, can communicate with the whole world by Phone,
>Radio, the Internet and TV it obviously would be no problem for any real
god
>to communicate directly with his creations without thousands of
>intermediates of questionable veracity.
>
God could indeed communicate with us as you describe, but that would
intimidate us into compliance, reducing us to nothing more than a
bunch of puppets.
>
>Why would not a real god announce directly and authoritatively from his
>heaven,
>
>that he is the real god and what do***ents are authentic and which are
fakes
>and
>
>destroy them? He certainly should want to prevent his creations from
being.
>
>deceived and mislead
>
>
>
>Although billions of people have died there is not a single
'authenticated
>and proven'
>
>case where anyone of them has ever communicated with their living
children,
>
>spouses or friends.
>
>
>
>Why would god not allow these souls in his heaven to explain and confirm
the
>
>virtues, benefits and even the existence of his heaven? Logic says it is
>because they
>
>don't exist except in peoples imaginations!
>
>
>
>Religions are ALL based on ancient myths and tales and NO god has
directly
>AUTHENTICATED ANY of them.
>
>
>
>Man can directly communicate with the whole world via TV, the Internet,
>Phone and Radio and the postal service. IF there is a real god, why does
he
>not announce to the whole world from his heaven, by at least equally
>effective means, that he is the real god and all the others are fakes?
And
>why does he not tell us clearly and directly what he expects from us
instead
>of using hundreds of vague, ancient, contradictory, unoriginal do***ents,
>compiled by different religions and hundreds of men of unknown veracity?
Why
>does he not expose and smite all the false gods and doctrines?
>
>
>
>An all powerful creator of this huge Universe would have no need or
desire
>for people to sing hymns and waste their time on their knees in adulation
>and building expensive churches that no god ever visits from his elegant
>heaven. This type of thing is the practice of greedy leaders with a need
to
>satisfy their selfish egos.
>
It isn't God who "needs" us to sing hymns to Him. It is we who need
this as a form of emotionally stabilizing influence that will help us
get along from day to day.
>
>
>An all powerful creator of this huge Universe and everything in it would
>have no need or desire to create, Sin, Devils, Evil, Spirits or Hells
>
>
>There would be no need for basing ones life on 'FAITH' and the
preaching's
>of errant selfish men because we would have direct communication and
>authentification directly from this all powerful REAL god
>
>
>
>There is no evidence that any of these gods communicate with any honest
or
>fully sane persons.
>
>
>
>No dead fathers, mothers relatives or friends ever verify there heaven or
>hell with their living siblings or friends.
>
>
>
>There is an overwhelming multitude of religions and god beliefs.
>
>They can't all be true and no REAL god would permit this massive
deception
>of his creations.
>
>
>
>Major religions;
>
>
>Baha'i Faith
>Buddhism
>Adventist
>Jehovah's Witnesses
>British Israelism
>Southern Baptists
>American Baptists
>
>Catholics
>
>Christina religions - dozens of them
>Christian Science
>Amish
>Brethren
>Mennonites
>Quakers
>Shakers
>Plymouth Brethren
>Fundamentalists
>Twin Oaks
>Con****ianism
>Hinduism
>Islam
>Jainism
>Judaism
>****nto
>Sikhism
>Taoism
>Vodun (Voodoo)
>Neopagan Religious Faiths
>Asatru (Norse Paganism)
>Druidism
>Goddess Wor****p
>Wicca
>Witchcraft
>Caodaism
>Damanhur Community
>Druse
>Eckankar
>Elian Gonzalez religious movement
>Gnosticism
>Gypsies
>Hare Krishna - ISKCON
>Lukumi
>Ma***ba
>Mowahhidoon
>Native American Spirituality
>Rom, Roma, Romani, Rroma, (a.k.a. Gypsies)
>Santeria Elian Gonzalez religious movement
>Satanism; The Church of Satan
>Scientology
>Unitarian-Universalism
>The Creativity Movement
>Zoroastrianism
>
>
>
>Any all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent designer,
would
>not create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earth
Quakes,
>Wars, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases, serious body
>malfunctions and starvation all of which punish people indiscriminately
>regardless of their behavior or religious beliefs. If he did he would not
be
>an all loving all caring god but a brutal malevolent creature or nothing
at
>all. There are 12,000 known diseases that torture and kill man. The
reality
>is that no all loving and all powerful god would create or permit these
>diseases to punish men of all religious persuasion and particularly
totally
>INNOCENT CHILDREN.
>
>
>
>Logic and common sense that refutes the existence of any omnipotent gods;
>
>
>
>Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?
>Then he is not omnipotent.
>Is he able, but not willing?
>Then he is malevolent.
>Is he both able and willing?
>Then where does evil come from?
>Is he neither able nor willing?
>Then why call him a god?
>
>
>
>Religion is things hoped for but not yet seen or proven. Science is
things
>seen and proven but not necessarily hoped for.
>
>
>
>There is NO objective verifiable evidence that any Gods, Heavens, Sin,
>Hells, Devils or Angels exist except in the imaginations of man. These
>beliefs are held to help people deal with their panic fear of death and
what
>comes after.
>
>
>
>When there is NO objective verifiable evidence for something's existence
it
>is logical to assume it does no exist. The LACK of evidence is not
evidence
>of something's existence.
>
>
>
>The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the
opposite;
>that man created imaginary gods! (thousands of them!)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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