Re: THE PROBLEM WITH THE HISTORICITY OF JESUS

"Andrew" <thecroft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:2008050717171816807-thecroft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On 2008-05-06 19:21:32 +0100, "Bill M" <wmech@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> said:
>
>> NOW THAT TAKES CARE OF THE NEGATIVES.
>>
>> What historians and what records of the time, other than the
questionable
>> Bibles, confirms a God named Jesus?
>
> Why do you regard the Bible as more questionable than other do***ents of

> the period?

Where did I say this???

(And note, I am NOT saying that the Bible should not be
> questioned?) Outwith the Bibles you have the letters of Clement, of 
> Ignatius, of Polycarp. You have the Didache. No doubt these are equally 
> questionable in your view, but I can't help but think that your view is 
> not entirely objective.

The subject has been "THE HISTORICITY OF JESUS"

Do you have any objective verifiable evidence that the God Jesus Christ
actually existed???

> I note, by the way, that you accept you were wrong to accept Sage's list

> at face value.

Yes, I accept that he was partially wrong. Why are you avoiding answering
my 
questions?

>> "Andrew" <thecroft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>> news:2008050623322716807-thecroft@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> On 2008-05-06 16:23:11 +0100, "Bill M" <wmech@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> said:
>>>
>>>> More evidence that sup****ts the fact that Jesus the Christ
>>>> is pure myth and fable.
>>>>
>>>> "The_Sage" <The_Sage@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>> news:j2bv14t46lm2b3r3t3a032qqmcd6ts0rsn@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>> For being considered the most influential person in all of history,
it
>>>>> is
>>>>> strange that of the 29 first century historians who existed at the 
>>>>> time
>>>>> of
>>>>> Jesus, none of them mention Jesus at all...
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Philo Judaeus
>>>>> 2. Apollonius of Tyana
>>>
>>> Virtually no writings survive
>>>
>>>>> 3. Valerius Maximus
>>>
>>> Not a historian - wrote a manual on "historical tales for
rhetoricians"
>>> based largely on Roman history
>>>
>>>>> 4. Marcus Manilius
>>>
>>> Not a historian - a poet and astrologer
>>>
>>>>> 5. Velleius Paterculus
>>>
>>> A historian, but dead before the crucifixion (19 BC - 31 AD)
>>>
>>>>> 6. Quintus Curtius Rufus
>>>
>>> Only surviving work is an autobiography of Alexander the Great. Oddly,
>>> Jesus doesn't appear.
>>>
>>>>> 7. Pomponius Mela
>>>
>>> Not a historian - a geographer
>>>
>>>>> 8. Lucius Annaeus Seneca
>>>
>>> Not a historian - a very bright man, but not a historian
>>>
>>>>> 9. Petronius Arbiter
>>>
>>> Not a historian - a satirist
>>>
>>>>> 10. C. Musonius Rufus
>>>>> 11. Aulus Persius Flaccus
>>>
>>> Not a historian - a poet and satirist
>>>
>>>>> 12. Marcus Annaeus Lucanus
>>>
>>> Only surviving historical work concerns the Roman Civil War. Oddly,
does
>>> not mention Jesus
>>>
>>>>> 13. Hero(n) of Alexandria
>>>
>>> Not a historian - a mathematician and engineer
>>>
>>>>> 14. Geminus
>>>
>>> Not a historian - a mathematician and astronomer
>>>
>>>>> 15. Lucius Junius Moderatus Columella
>>>>> 16. Cleomedes
>>>
>>> Not a historian - an astronomer
>>>
>>>>> 17. Phaedrus
>>>
>>> Not a historian - a writer of fables in imitation of Aesop
>>>
>>>>> 18. Dioscorides
>>>
>>> Not a historian - a physician and pharmacologist
>>>
>>>>> 19. Plutarch of Chaeronea
>>>
>>> A historian whose only extant works in this field focus on Alexander,
>>> Pliny and Herodotus. Oddly, does not mention Jesus
>>>
>>>>> 20. Justus of Tiberias
>>>>> 21. Pliny the Elder (Gaius Plinius Secundus)
>>>>> 22. Dio Chrysostom (Cocceianus Dio)
>>>
>>> Regarded as a historian by his contem****aries but no historical works
>>> survive
>>>
>>>>> 23. Marcus Fabius Quintilianus
>>>
>>> Only extant work is a textbook on rhetoric
>>>
>>>>> 24. Publius Papinius
>>>>> 25. Dio of Prusa
>>>
>>> Same person as Dio Chrysostom!!!
>>>
>>>>> 26. Silius Italicus
>>>
>>> Not a historian - a poet. Only surviving work an epic based on the
Punic
>>> wars
>>>
>>>>> 27. ***tus Julius Frontinus
>>>
>>> Not a historian - a soldier and administrator
>>>
>>>>> 28. Marcus Valerius Martialus
>>>
>>> Not a historian - read his "Epigrams".
>>>
>>>>> 29. Hierocles of Alexandria
>>>
>>> Writing in the 5th Century AD by which time Christianity was the 
>>> official
>>> religion of the Empire!!!
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The very first historian to supposedly mention Jesus at all was 
>>>>> Josephus
>>>>> Flavianus, but if you read Josephus for yourself, you will find that

>>>>> he
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>> talk about Jesus at all -- just when you think he is going to talk 
>>>>> about
>>>>> "Christus", he only talks about his brother and ignores "Christus". 
>>>>> That
>>>>> hardly
>>>>> counts as much of a influence on history. The only influence came
from
>>>>> the
>>>>> Popes, not Jesus.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Sage
>>>>>
>>>>> =============================================================
>>>>> http://members.cox.net/the.sage/index.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> [The current anthropomorphic global warming nonsense is
>>>>> based on] "inherently untrustworthy climate models, similar
>>>>> to those that cannot accurately forecast the weather a week
>>>>> from now" -- Dr. Richard Lindzen
>>>>> =============================================================
>>>
>>> You see Bill? You'll accept any old piffle if it fits in with your
>>> prejudices. "The Sage" trawls anti-Christian websites and just accepts
>>> everything he reads entirely uncritically. That's why I killfiled him
- 
>>> he
>>> can't accept that there is a difference between 'fact' and his 
>>> prejudices.
>>> How about you? Care to check my comments on his list of "29
historians"?
>
>