On May 7, 6:09=A0am, Craig Stevens <craig_stev...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
> http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/chapt05.html#Sodomy_Approved
>
> Baby boys may always be used as subjects for sodomy by grown men,
accordin=
g to the Talmud. The
> Pharisaic subterfuge here is that until a child reaches ***ual maturity,
c=
apable of ***ual
> intercourse, he or she does not rank as a person, hence Biblical laws
agai=
nst sodomy
> (pederasty) do not apply. Throughout the Talmud "nine years and one day"
i=
s the fictitious age
> of male maturity.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Sanhedrin 54b
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Our Rabbis taught: In the case of a male child, a young
on=
e is not regarded as on a par
> with an old one; but a young beast is treated as an old one.23 =A0What
is =
meant by this? =97 Rab
> said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as
pede=
rasty with a child
> above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not
t=
reated as with a
> child above that.24 =A0What is the basis of their dispute? =97 Rab
maintai=
ns that only he who is
> able to engage in ***ual intercourse, may, as the passive subject of
peder=
asty throw guilt
> [upon the active offender]; whilst he who is unable to engage in ***ual
in=
tercourse cannot be a
> passive subject of pederasty [in that respect].25
> =A0 Footnotes:
> =A0 23 =A0The reference is to the passive subject of sodomy. As stated
sup=
ra 54a, guilt is incurred
> by the active participant even if the former be a minor, i.e., less than
t=
hirteen years old.
> Now, however, it is stated that within this age a distinction is drawn.
> =A0 24 =A0I.e., Rab makes nine years the minimum; but if one committed
sod=
omy with a child of
> lesser age, no guilt is incurred. Samuel makes three the minimum.
> =A0 25 =A0At nine years a male attains ***ual matureness.
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> Likewise, under "nine years and one day," the "first stage of
intercourse"=
of a boy with the
> mother, or any grown woman, is harmless, Talmudically. Shammai, to seem
mo=
re "strict," lowers
> the age to eight years in some cases. (See Sanhedrin 69b of the Talmud)
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Sanhedrin 69b
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Our Rabbis taught: If a woman s****ted lewdly with her
youn=
g son [a minor], and he
> committed the first stage of cohabitation with her, =97 Beth Shammai
say, =
he thereby renders her
> unfit to the priesthood. =A0Beth Hillel declare her fit. R. Hiyya the
son =
of Rabbah b. Nahmani
> said in R. Hisda's name; others state, R. Hisda said in Ze'iri's name:
All=
agree that the
> connection of a boy aged nine years and a day is a real connection;
whilst=
that of one less
> than eight years is not: =A0their dispute refers only to one who is
eight =
years old, Beth Shammai
> maintaining, We must base our ruling on the earlier generations, but6
=A0B=
eth Hillel hold that we
> do not.
> ---------------
>
> "When a grown up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing,
for=
when the girl is
> less than this =97 that is, less than three years old =97 it is as if
one =
puts the finger into the
> eye =97 tears come to the eye again and again, so does virginity come
back=
to the little girl
> under three years." (Kethuboth 11b of the Talmud)
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Kethuboth 11b
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 GEMARA. Rab Judah said that Rab said: A small boy who
has =
intercourse with a grown-up
> woman makes her [as though she were] injured by a piece of wood. When I
sa=
id it before Samuel
> he said: 'Injured by a piece of wood' does not apply to flesh. Some
teach =
this teaching by
> itself: [As to] a small boy who has intercourse with a grown-up woman.
Rab=
said, he makes her
> [as though she were] injured by a piece of wood; whereas Samuel said:
'Inj=
ured by a piece of
> wood' does not apply to flesh. R. Oshaia objected: WHEN A GROWN-UP MAN
HAS=
HAD INTERCOURSE WITH
> A LITTLE GIRL, OR WHEN A SMALL BOY HAS INTERCOURSE WITH A GROWN-UP
WOMAN, =
OR WHEN A GIRL WAS
> ACCIDENTALLY INJURED BY A PIECE OF WOOD =97 [IN ALL THESE CASES] THEIR
KET=
HUBAH IS TWO HUNDRED
> [ZUZ]; SO ACCORDING TO R. MEIR. BUT THE SAGES SAY: A GIRL WHO WAS
INJURED =
ACCIDENTALLY BY A
> PIECE OF WOOD =97 HER KETHUBAH IS A MANEH! Raba said, It means this:
When =
a grown-up man has
> intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less
th=
an this,6 =A0 it is as
> if one puts the finger into the eye;7 =A0 but when a small boy has
interco=
urse with a grown-up
> woman he makes her as 'a girl who is injured by a piece of wood,' and
[wit=
h regard to the case
> of] 'a girl injured by a piece of wood,' itself, there is the difference
o=
f opinion between R.
> Meir and the Sages.
>
> Rami b. Hama said: The difference of opinion is [only] when he knew her,
f=
or R. Meir compares
> her11 =A0to a mature girl, and the Sages compare her to a woman who had
in=
tercourse with a man.
> But if he did not know her, all agree that she has nothing. And why does
R=
.. Meir compare her to
> a mature girl? Let him compare her to a woman who had intercourse with a
m=
an! =97 [In the case
> of] a woman who had intercourse with a man, a deed had been done to her
by=
a man; but in her
> case =97 no deed has been done to her by a man. =97 And why do the
Rabbis =
compare her to a woman
> who had intercourse with a man? Let them compare her to a mature girl!
[In=
the case of] a
> mature girl no deed whatsoever has been done to her, but in her case =97
a=
deed has been done to
> her. =A0
> =A0 Footnotes:
> =A0 6 =A0Lit., 'here', that is, less than three years old.
> =A0 7 =A0I.e., tears come to the eye again and again, so does virginity
co=
me back to the little
> girl under three years. Cf. Nid. 45a.
> -------------------------------------
>
> This is the standard doctrine of the whole Talmud on baby girls. Sodomy
an=
d intercourse with
> babies is the prerogative of the adult Talmudic man, in contrast to
Christ=
's beautiful
> teachings concerning little children.
>
> The following is also typical concerning the fictitious age of ***ual
matu=
rity of baby girls
> set by the Pharisee "sages:" "A maiden aged three years and one day may
be=
acquired in marriage
> by coition =85" (Sanhedrin 55b), (Sanhedrin 69a-69b), (Yebamoth 57b),
and =
(Yebamoth 60b); also
> Niddah 44b.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Sanhedrin 55b
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in
mar=
riage by coition, and if her
> deceased husband's brother cohabits with her, she becomes his. The
penalty=
of adultery may be
> incurred through her; [if a niddah] she defiles him who has connection
wit=
h her, so that he in
> turn defiles that upon which he lies, as a garment which has lain upon
[a =
person afflicted with
> gonorrhoea].5 =A0If she married a priest, she may eat of terumah; =A0 If
a=
ny unfit person7 =A0 has a
> connection with her, he disqualifies her from the priesthood =97 If any
of=
the forbidden degrees
> had intercourse with her, they are executed on her account, =A0but she
is =
exempt.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Sanhedrin 69a-69b
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 R. Jeremiah of Difti said: We also learnt the following:
A=
maiden aged three years and
> a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased
husband'=
s brother cohabited
> with her, she becomes his. The penalty of adultery may be incurred
through=
her; [if a niddah,]
> she defiles him who has connection with her, so that he in turn defiles
th=
at upon which he
> lies, as a garment which has lain upon [a person afflicted with
gonorrhoea=
]. If she married a
> priest, she may eat of terumah; if any unfit person cohabits with her,
he =
disqualifies her from
> the priesthood. If any of the forbidden degrees had intercourse with
her, =
they are executed on
> her account, but she is exempt. Our Rabbis taught: If a woman s****ted
lewd=
ly with her young son
> [a minor], and he committed the first stage of cohabitation with her,
=97 =
Beth Shammai say, he
> thereby renders her unfit to the priesthood.4 =A0 Beth Hillel declare
her =
fit. R. Hiyya the son
> of Rabbah b. Nahmani said in R. Hisda's name; others state, R. Hisda
said =
in Ze'iri's name: All
> agree that the connection of a boy aged nine years and a day is a real
con=
nection; whilst that
> of one less than eight years is not:5 =A0 their dispute refers only to
one=
who is eight years
> old, Beth Shammai maintaining, We must base our ruling on the earlier
gene=
rations, but6 =A0Beth
> Hillel hold that we do not.
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Yebamoth 57b
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Raba said, We also learned a similar Baraitha: A girl
who =
is three years of age and one
> day may be betrothed by cohabitation; if a levir cohabited with her, he
ha=
s thereby acquired
> her; one incurs through her the guilt of intercourse with a married
woman;=
she defiles her
> cohabitor in respect of his imparting defilement to the lower, as well
as =
to the upper couch;
> if she was married to a priest she may eat terumah, and anyone
ineligible =
who cohabited with
> her causes her ineligibility. Thus only a girl of the age of three years
a=
nd one day, who is
> rendered ineligible by cohabitation, is also rendered ineligible through
t=
he bridal chamber;
> but a girl younger than three years and one day, who is not rendered
ineli=
gible by
> cohabitation, is not rendered ineligible through the bridal chamber
either=
..
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Yebamoth 60b
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 It was taught: R. Simeon b. Yohai stated: A proselyte
who =
is under the age of three
> years and one day is permitted to marry a priest, for it is said, But
all =
the women children
> that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves,
and =
Phinehas surely was
> with them. And the Rabbis?16 =A0=97 [These were kept alive] as bondmen
and=
bondwomen. If so, a
> proselyte whose age is three years and one day should also be permitted!
=
=97 [The prohibition is
> to be explained] in accordance with R. Huna. For R. Huna pointed out a
con=
tradiction: It is
> written, Kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him, but if
sh=
e hath not known,
> save her alive; from this it may be inferred that children are to be
kept =
alive whether they
> have known or have not known [a man]; and, on the other hand, it is also
w=
ritten, But all the
> women children, that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive
for =
yourselves, but do
> not spare them if they have known. Consequently it must be said that
Scrip=
ture speaks of one
> who is fit for cohabitation.
> ----------------------------
>
> And, at three, a baby girl is always rated as "one who is fit for
cohabita=
tion =97 that is one
> who has attained the age of three years and one day." (Talmud, Yebamoth
60=
b) But, in the ...
>
> read more =BB
Bradbury:
OK, I'll play or should I say, waddle along:
Name 1 Jewish person who has done any of these things. Not the entire
Jewish population as you imply, or 250,000. Not 17,498, 2,499, 587, 17
or 5. Just 1.
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