On Thu, 15 May 2008 06:31:05 -0400, "Carl" <saints@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
>God desires everyone to know Him, but many people are too fightened to do
so
>and others are to prideful to allow themselves to do so. And that is a
shame
>for they are missing out on the joy and love God provides. Clark Tanner
>delves into this in this sermon.
>
>May God bless,
>Carl
>my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
>my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
>
>---
Prophet Carl,
Once again you side with Satan who promotes false doctrines through
men like the Baptist preacher below. Either you did read the article
and saw the falsehoods are are conspiring with Tanner to deceive the
church of God; or, you didn't read the article and didn't see the
falsehoods; or, you did read the article but lack the skills needed to
separate truth from error. A prophet is one who speaks for someone
else. You spoke for Clark Tanner and are therefore his prophet. What
he speaks is false. Therefore you are a prophet for a false teacher
and that makes you what kind of prophet?
You have sided with Tanner against God by testifying that the word of
God is nothing more than the opinions and emotions of men.
Heb 1:1-2 KJV
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past
unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath
appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
In time past God spake unto the fathers by the prophets (that's
English for God spoke the words in the Old Testament to Israel). In
these last days he hath spoken to us by his Son (that's English for
God spoke through His Son in what we call the New Testament). That
means that God spoke through real prophets over a period of time
(because they didn't live very long and more than one prophet was
needed) and that God then spoke through one real prophet who happens
to be His Son who has eternal life and can speak for God).
God through His Son through Paul said:
Gal 1:11-12 KJV
11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of
me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by
the revelation of Jesus Christ.
So, what Paul spoke in Ephesians was God's words given to Paul through
revelation of Jesus Christ and was not the musings and rantings and
ravings and emotional outbursts of Paul. In other words, the words in
Ephesians are God's words (the Author) and not Paul's words (the
speaker). There is only one Author of the word of God and it was not
Paul.
Here is what Tanner wrote that you agreed with and promoted as true
doctrine:
"With verse 14 Paul has ended his lengthy and praise-filled salutation
to the Ephesians. The more I study the epistles of this man, the more
I understand and appreciate those who have been so drawn to him as a
person, even now, 2000 years after he walked this earth. Paul is so
filled with Christ; so overflowing with the Holy Spirit in power and
love, that he can't even say 'hello' without bursting into a virtual
song of wonder and praise."
Tanner is saying that the words spoken by Paul were Paul's words.
1Co 14:32-33 KJV
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all
churches of the saints.
The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. God is not
the author of confusion in the church.
Tanner is promoting the false doctrine that being filled with Christ
and the overflowing with Holy Spirit (wrong words) etc is an emotional
pentecostalic outburst.
Tanner and you are preaching the false pentecostalic doctrine that
about being filled with Christ and then getting all sensually
motivated to do things which are not of God. We are not filled with
"Christ"; we are filled with spirit and we may be filled with the
fulness of God and the fruits of righteousness.
Eph 3:19 KJV
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might
be filled with all the fulness of God.
Php 1:11 KJV
Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus
Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
Christ is in us in the spirit in us; but the spirit in us is "another"
Comforter; not the same Comforter.
What you guys are promoting is "slain in the spirit", "dancing in the
spirit", "handling snakes in the spirit", "laughing in the spirit" and
"slithering like snakes in the spirit". Paul was not into any of that
emotional mumbo jumbo junk that phoney charismatics revel in as
worship which is really paganism.
Here is the truth Carl.
Before Christ God spoke through holy men of God called prophets. That
is the first thing you have to know. God spoke through many men of
God over a long period of time. In these last days God spoke through
His Son who is superior to all men of God through men like Paul,
Peter, and John who were prophets and apostles who spoke for God.
2Pe 1:20 KJV
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any
private [Gr. idios = one's own] interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 KJV
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men
of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Heb 1:1-2 KJV
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past
unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath
appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Baptists and Methodists are deceivers who teach that the men credited
with writing the New Testament books are the authors. They are not.
They were the speakers and writers. There is only one Author and that
is God.
That is one way you can tell whether a man is a false prophet. False
prophets credit man while true prophets credit God. Does that help
you see why I keep admonishing you to stop promoting men? Does that
help you to see why I keep admonishing you to write your own sermons?
There are many other falsehoods in what Tanner wrote. All you have to
do to find them is to compare what Tanner says to what the word of God
says.
BB
>
>The Knowledge Of God
>by Clark Tanner
>
>"For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which
>exists among you, and your love for all the saints, do not cease giving
>thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; that the God
of
>our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of
>wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him."
>
>With verse 14 Paul has ended his lengthy and praise-filled salutation to
the
>Ephesians. The more I study the epistles of this man, the more I
understand
>and appreciate those who have been so drawn to him as a person, even now,
>2000 years after he walked this earth.
>Paul is so filled with Christ; so overflowing with the Holy Spirit in
power
>and love, that he can't even say 'hello' without bursting into a virtual
>song of wonder and praise.
>
>"Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
>Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed
us
>with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ"... and
off
>he goes!
>
>I recently ran across a statistic compiled by a German scholar whose name
I
>can't pronounce. He determined that in Paul's 13 epistles, some very
short
>(Philemon is little more than a page long), he uses the term "In Christ"
or
>some form of it ~ "in Him", "in the Lord" ~ no less than 164 times! How
he
>loved to talk about Jesus!
>
>Here in the first chapter of Ephesians he spells out all these spiritual
>blessings God has lavished on us out of the kind intention of His will.
He
>tells us that the end, or the purpose of all this blessing is that we
should
>be to the praise of the Father's glory. Our calling, our hope, our
>forgiveness, our redemption, our inheritance, the gift of the Holy Spirit
in
>us, sealing us, preserving and protecting us as God's own possession.
>
>And it's important to remind you of those things today as we continue,
>because Paul begins his next thought with "For this reason..."
>
>Due to the fact that God has blessed us with all these spiritual
blessings,
>and has sealed us unto Himself in the Holy Spirit in order to redeem us
to
>Himself as His own possession.. because He has done all this to make us
His
>(glory to His name)... "for this reason"...
>I, Paul, give thanks for you without ceasing, and I never forget to
mention
>you in my prayers, asking God to give this to you: the Spirit of wisdom
and
>revelation in the knowledge of Him.
>
>In other words, Paul is praying for the Ephesians the most important
prayer
>any Believer can pray for another Believer. That God would take them
deeper
>and deeper into an intimate knowledge of Himself.
>
>Man's chief end is to know God and to enjoy Him forever, it was
determined
>in the Westminster Catechism; but Paul knew and taught that basic truth
long
>before.
>
>"...that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give
to
>you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him".
>
>Now something that, I must admit, surprised me about the various
>translations I checked , is that only the NIV translates verse 17 to say
>"the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, giving the word 'Spirit' a capital
S.
>
>The same Greek word is used for spirit throughout the New Testament,
whether
>referring to the Holy Spirit or the spirit of man. The application of it
is
>generally determined by the context. For example, chapter 1:13 uses the
term
>Holy Spirit and that makes it quite obvious. But over in chapter 2, verse
>18, when Paul says that we all have our access in one Spirit to the
Father,
>it is understood that he is referring to none other than the Holy Spirit,
>the third Person of the trinity, as we know that it is His office to
bring
>us, draw us, to God.
>
>So looking closely at our text, verse 17, I have to assert that the
wording
>of it and what Paul is praying for the Ephesians is for something that
only
>the Holy Spirit of God can give.
>He is not praying for them to have an attitude, or a strength of
>determination, or any other thing that can be conjured up, mustered up
>within a man; he is praying and asking God for this particular thing
because
>he is praying for spiritual wisdom and revelation, that can only come
from
>God.
>
>Now does that mean he's praying for God to give them the Holy Spirit? No.
He's
>writing to believers. They have the Holy Spirit since their salvation.
What
>he is praying for simply, is the Holy Spirit's help and continued unction
in
>bringing to these faithful believers ever greater wisdom and revelation
in
>the knowledge of God.
>
>Christian, we spend a great deal of time closely examining Paul's
doctrine;
>debating the finer points and talking about how we should be living
>according to the truth of them.
>
>And of course I agree and consistently teach that Paul's aim was to
magnify
>Christ and to point us to Him, and it is Christ we need to study and
learn
>to know personally, and it is Christ who is our ultimate example in all
>things.
>
>But we could learn some things by looking at the example of the Apostle
Paul
>too.
>
>When was the last time you prayed for the spiritual growth and well-being
of
>another Christian? Oh, you may have prayed for your child. You may pray
>often for your child. Your child may give you very frequent cause to run
to
>your room and fall on your knees in prayer. And I hope you pray for your
>spouse. I believe there is a great deal of spiritual power in the prayer
of
>a husband for his wife and visa versa.
>
>But I wonder how many Christians, even among pastors of congregations of
>people, intercede for other believers ~ for believers everywhere ~ and
pray,
>not for things, not for health, not for help in specific, known
>circumstances, ... but just that the Holy Spirit would give them wisdom
and
>revelation in the knowledge of the Father of glory.
>
>Since I've been studying this great epistle for this series, I have been
>moved to pray these things for you. On my morning walks I like to run
your
>faces past my mind's eye and pray for you by name. And if I know of any
>particular, present need, I mention that. But some things I can pray for
>each and every one and never have to wonder whether I am praying for a
>legitimate need or not. I can pray that the Lord will enlighten the eyes
of
>your heart, so that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what
are
>the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the
>surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe; and be confident
>that I am praying aright. Because I'm praying the scriptures for you.
Can't
>go wrong there!
>
>I can pray that the Lord will give you an ever greater hunger for His
word,
>and that He will use your study to draw you ever closer to Himself, and
that
>as you grow in the grace and knowledge of Him you will be used of Him to
>illumine the world around you.
>
>These and many other things I can pray for you from the scriptures, and I
>hope that you will pray the same for me. I don't care if you pray that
the
>Lord will give me physical comfort. I don't care if you pray that the
Lord
>will meet my financial needs or keep me safe from harm or illness.
>
>But I will be blessed beyond measure, if you will pray that the Lord give
me
>the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him.
>
>You see believers, this is a great and wonderful privilege we have; to
pray
>this way for one another. Because no one outside of Christ can pray this.
>When we pray this way, we're asking God to give us and give our fellow
>believers something that is only available to us who have the Holy Spirit
of
>God.
>
>Proverbs 9:10 declares, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
>and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."
>
>Man in his natural mind cannot begin to comprehend God. In fact, one
basic
>truth that the scriptures teach us from beginning to end, is that apart
from
>the Spirit and spiritual birth, God is infinitely and eternally out of
man's
>grasp.
>
>Actually, the best commentary on Ephesians 1:17 to be found is I
Corinthians
>chapter 2.
>
>Listen to verses 6 thru 8 of that chapter:
>"Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however,
not
>of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; but we
>speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom, which God predestined
>before the ages to our glory; the wisdom which none of the rulers of this
>age has understood; for if they had understood it, they would not have
>crucified the Lord of glory;"
>
>Then in verse 14 Paul says,
>
>But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for
they
>are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are
>spiritually appraised."
>
>He is, in effect, repeating Jesus' teaching when He told the Pharisee,
>Nicodemus, "...unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of
God."
>
>I have a copy of an e-mail that was sent to the host of a website. We
used
>it just this last week in our Wednesday night study, to challenge our
>ability to answer some questions. So I'm getting a lot of mileage out of
>this e-mail. But I want to read it to you today, because it so clearly
>illustrates the truth of these things Paul has been saying to us from I
Cor.
>2
>
>"Hello Todd. You seem like a well meaning fellow and all but the thing
that
>makes all of this quite illogical is this: You say "God" (and I use that
>term loosely) wants all people to repent of their sins and misdeeds. To
>reach "salvation" one must have faith and repent and all of that. Wait a
>second here. If there really is a God, one who is all-powerful, all
knowing,
>all this, all that, who had no beginning and will have no end, what would
he
>care if people repented or not? That is, if he even created them in the
>first place. If he had to concern himself with all of that trouble,
wouldn't
>he have just skipped that part of creation? Wouldn't he say, 'To heck
with
>mankind, they're not worth all the trouble in the first place'. And what
>would God care what I or anybody else believes? He'll continue being God
>without regard for me or anyone else. Are you saying I'll ruin his
existence
>if I don't repent or believe? I hardly think so. I'd be just another atom
in
>the universe to him. You see, it makes no difference either way. He
either
>does not exist (which is highly probable) or does exist but doesn't care
>about anyone because he is God. One more thing that is disturbing. Just
who
>created God anyway??? Don't give me that 'it's just a mystery' stuff
either.
>It is totally illogical and senseless in addition to impossible that he
>never had a beginning or will have no end. Best regards, Lou
>
>I wish I could respond to Lou. I hope someone from that website did
respond,
>in love and in persuasive terms. Because frankly, if I knew Lou's e-mail
>address, I would write to him and tell him that I agree with him. I would
>tell him that the god he described does not exist. I would tell him that
the
>God who is revealed in the scriptures, which is the only place available
to
>learn of God, is quite the opposite of the uncaring, unfeeling god of his
>e-mail.
>
>Nevertheless, my point here is that Lou is simply confirming to us that
the
>natural man cannot fathom the things of the Spirit.
>
>The best that the natural man can ever hope to come up with is a god of
>futility. A mental image that is by nature as shallow and two-dimensional
as
>a character in a grade B novel.
>
>A figure carved out of stone or wood and made to stand in a corner or on
a
>shelf, to be dusted once a week, but that has no life or breath in it.
>
>Because the natural man, since he can think no higher than his human
spirit
>will let him, can therefore only make gods like himself and no higher.
>
>But since no one can know God or His thoughts except the Spirit of God,
then
>God cannot be known except by His Spirit. Again in II Corinthians, verse
10
>
>"For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches
all
>things, even the depths of God."
>
>So now we touch on this word 'revelation'. "For to us God revealed
them..."
>
>Paul prays, "...that...the Father of glory may give to you the Spirit of
>wisdom and revelation.
>
>We've been seeing that man cannot have the knowledge of God apart from
His
>Spirit. The wisdom, or the learning, the understanding of the things of
the
>Spirit.
>
>But I can go farther and say that apart from God's revelation of Himself
to
>the spirit, there can be no understanding of God at all.
>
>Here is probably the clearest and best example.
>
>The disciples walked and talked with Jesus for over three years. They
were
>with Him constantly, listening to Him teach, seeing His miracles, asking
Him
>questions, seeing Him in all the aspects and circumstances of life.
>
>But they did not understand. They did not perceive His purpose in coming,
>until after the resurrection...and even then they continued to ask
questions
>that exposed their ignorance. "We were hoping that it was He who was
going
>to redeem Israel"
>
>"Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"
>
>It wasn't until they were gathered in the upper room, and there came from
>heaven a noise like a violent, rushing wind, and it filled the whole
house
>where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire
>distributing themselves and they rested on each one of them. And they
were
>all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as
>the Spirit was giving them utterance.
>
>And they stepped out onto the streets of Jerusalem...
>
>Now I want you to take notice here... they weren't given a crash course
in
>theology. They didn't stay sequestered in the upper room for another 13
>weeks while Jesus appeared to them with a dry erase board and a box of
>scrolls and taught them doctrine and homiletics and how to properly
exegete
>the scriptures.
>
>They had a certain knowledge, a learning that He had stored up in them
while
>He was with them, but they had no revelation of the Spirit, until He came
>from the Son and filled them; baptized them, there in that upper room.
>
>And when He did, these disciples who only days before were still asking
>questions in ignorance; these same ones whose hearts were still filled
with
>fear and doubt when they met him after the resurrection on the Mount of
>Olives; who stood gazing into the sky as He ascended and even after He
was
>out of their sight, as though they thought He was going to return
>immediately and had to be exhorted by angels to go about the task He had
>given them to do...
>
>...now stepped immediately out of the upper room and preached a Holy
Spirit
>inspired sermon that had even those who crucified their Lord crying,
"What
>must we do to be saved?"
>
>So you see, it is not enough to have just a head-knowledge of Jesus. To
>examine Him and scrutinize His word and His actions and think to
understand
>Him that way.
>
>Our relationship to Him must be based on the revelation of Himself
through
>His Spirit to our spirits; it will only be in the spirit and by the
Spirit
>of wisdom and revelation that we will begin to understand His mission in
the
>world, His purpose in us; Only by the Spirit of wisdom and revelation
that
>we begin to know the Father.
>
>I'd like to enter into a pact with you, that we pray these things for
each
>other faithfully.
>
>Not a pact that calls for some legalistic accountability. I'm not going
to
>call you on the phone one day and say, "Hey! The Lord has revealed to me
>that you haven't prayed for me for over a week...what's the deal?"
>
>But let's simply agree, earnestly and sincerely, that in the course of
our
>days, as the Lord brings us to each other's minds, or even if it's
something
>other than the Lord that brings us to mind... even if it's the Enemy,
trying
>to make us think poorly of one another in an attempt to destroy our
unity...
>let's agree to turn that around and say, "Lord, give (this one or that
one)
>the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of You."
>
>And in the days and weeks and months to come let's watch and see what
>marvelous things the Father of glory does in and through us as a family
of
>believers.
>
>I want to finish today by reading you an excerpt from D. Martin
Lloyd-Jones'
>commentary on this verse. I enjoyed what he said and I want to share it
with
>you.
>
>"We have been considering one of the most important doctrines of the
>Christian faith. The Protestant Reformers used to tell their hearers that
>there is a double action of the Holy Spirit. There is the 'Testimonium
>Spiritus Externus' - the Spirit that is in the Word, as it were, the
Spirit
>that inspired the men who produced the Word. That is essential. But it is
>not enough. Before I know that this is God's Word and God's truth, before
I
>can read the Bible and discover health and food for my soul, something
>additional is necessary - the 'Testimonium Spiritus Internus'. The Spirit
in
>the Word, the Spirit in the reader! And without the Spirit in him no man
>will be able to understand the meaning of the Word. The two operations
are
>absolutely essential.
>
>In other words we have seen that the Apostle prays for the Ephesian
>believers that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may
>give them 'the Spirit of wisdom (the Spirit in the Word) and 'the Spirit
of
>revelation', (the ability to see it and to receive it and revel in it and
to
>enjoy it). What a perfect provision for damned, blind, helpless, wretched
>sinners! All the truth I need to know and the ability to receive it and
to
>apprehend it! And all given freely through the Holy Spirit of God! What a
>perfect salvation! 'All I need, in Thee to find'."
>
>{Wisdom: The Spirit in the Word} {Revelation: The Spirit in the believer,
>taking the Word and from it revealing the person of the Father in all His
>glory}
>
>I am constrained to return to an anthem of praise that I have found
myself
>repeating with increasing frequency, my friends...
>
>...what a wonderful and loving God we serve, whose plan and design for us
in
>everything He has done, every gift He has given, every promise He has
made,
>His very call to us, His purpose in us and through us, is all for the
sake
>of having our company; our fellowship. He wants to be with us and us with
>Him, so much, so very, very much, that He even teaches us to pray for one
>another, an ever-deepening knowledge and understanding of Him. Not just
>facts about Him... but Him.
>
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