On May 10, 12:45=A0am, "SongBookz" <songbo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> "Raymond" <rwkn...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
>
news:0ccf9eec-d858-4f6c-a14c-473e7b38f97e@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On May 9, 11:29 am, "SongBookz" <songbo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Raymond" <rwkn...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
>
>news:f46294cc-284b-4647-96c9-ff42cd245f24@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On May 8, 2:34 am, 2...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(=95R. L. Measures) wrote:
> > > > Your reply is total idiocies. I sure there were many thousands of
> > > > gods people followed many had sacrifice blood based and so on.
>
> > > ** agreed
>
> > > >Which
> > > > has nothing to do with Jesus or a pagan Sun-God play of words it
is
> > > > SON of GOD not SUN.
>
> > > ** Mithra was the Persian sun God.
>
> > > >Jesus came to set such silly teachings like
> > > > yours to rest and make the way for mankind to find the real GOD!
Dec=
> > > > 25, was not and could not be the birthday of Jesus
>
> > > ** Agreed
>
> > > > it was only a day
> > > > that was picked out of 360 days, no matter what day one picked
peopl=
e
> > > > like you would find some reason to mock it.
>
> > > ** Picking the birthday of the sun God Mithra was not a good choice
> > > since
> > > Jesus of Nazareth was likely born in October.
>
> > If you lived at that time it was the best day to pick, as it was
> > really three days and the people were drunk that did worship Mithra
> > and so no one cared what Christians were doing as they were to far
> > gone. Remember followers of Jesus were no permited to worship and
> > this would be the best time to do that. Then just because some other
> > god or thing was done by some other group does not mean they are doing
> > the same. I can go to church at the same time a group are in a bar
> > getting drunk, everyone knows church and bar have nothing to do with
> > each othere. It really does not matter what month Jesus was born,
> > what does matter is he was born. One day is just as good as any
> > othere.
>
> I am not sure what program you are using as the above is what I said,
> and below is not, but there is no way to see that here.
>
> Terrell: =A0My program somehow turned off adding >'s to replies - trying
t=
o
> figure out how to turn it back on.
>
>
>
> > By the time they decided to celebrate Christ's Mass to discourage
people=
> > from celebrating the "birthday of the sun," Christians were not being
> > persecuted but had become the state religion. Later pagan customs were
> > incorporated into it (trees, yule log, etc.) Even in America, the
Purita=
ns
> > didn't celebrate Christmas and hardly anyone did in America for a long
> > time.
>
> There was no such celebrating of any sun by christians. =A0 The became
> the State religon later on, and when they picked the 25 they were
> being persecuted State untill the ruler had a vision. =A0History shows
> that time table. =A0 Then I do not recall ever reading about America not
> celebrating Christmas.
>
> Terrell: =A0http://www.thehistoryofchristmas.com/ch/in_america.htm
>
> From:http://www.didyouknow.cd/xmas/xmashistory.htm
>
> "In the year 274AD, solstice fell on 25th December. Roman Emperor
Aurelian=
> proclaimed the date as "Natalis Solis Invicti," the festival of the
birth =
of
> the invincible sun. In 320 AD, Pope Julius I specified the 25th of
Decembe=
r
> as the official date of the birth of Jesus Christ.
>
> "In 325AD, Constantine the Great, the first Christian Roman emperor,
> introduced Christmas as an immovable feast on 25 December. He also
> introduced Sunday as a holy day in a new 7-day week, and introduced
movabl=
e
> feasts (Easter). In 354AD, Bishop Liberius of Rome officially ordered
his
> members to celebrate the birth of Jesus on 25 December.
>
> "However, even though Constantine officiated 25 December as the birthday
o=
f
> Christ, Christians, recognising the date as a pagan festival, did not
shar=
e
> in the emperor's good meaning. Christmas failed to gain universal
> recognition among Christians until quite recently. In England, Oliver
> Cromwell banned Christmas festivities between 1649 and 1660 through the
> so-called Blue Laws, believing that Christmas should be a solemn day."
>
>
>
> > Christianity has borrowed lots of pagan symbols over the centuries.
The
> > little"t" cross which was the "Mystic Tau" a symbol of Tammuz and can
be=
> > traced back centuries before that. Steeples adapted from the Egyptian
> > Obelisk which was part of sun worship. The Trinity - practically all
pag=
an
> > deities were part of a trinity. and so on...
>
> More like Catholics not Christians did such.
>
> > > >Christianity never
> > > > adopted any God Mithra's or what ever name one wants to use.
>
> > > ** History says they did.
>
> > No it does not! You will not find in any true Christian church or
> > history any word of worship of Mithra's as their God.
>
> > Of course not, but in many cases, Christians have just changed
Mithra's
> > name
> > to Jesus.
>
> Never happen!
>
>
>
>
>
> > > >You seem
> > > > to forget it was God that made all days and pagans just used them.
S=
o
> > > > when a Christian takes back the day, you all try to make it sound
li=
ke
> > > > the pagan owned it. Sorry that ideal does not hold water. God made
> > > > the days long before any pagan lived. You also don't seem to know
> > > > much about true history or the teachings of the Jew that is real
and=
> > > > theirs not some book of pagan teachings that you seem to follow or
> > > > want others to believe which are just lies and falsehoods.
>
> > > ** paganization of Christianity did not come until 3-centuries after
t=
he
> > > curcifixtion.
>
> > I can agree with some of that, only Paul did say even in his day that
> > false teachers were already preaching falsehoods.
>
> > If you have access to Vine's Expository Dictionary, there's a good
artic=
le
> > on this under "Cross."
>
> I have access, so what?
>
> Terrell: =A0the article for the word "cross" has a good article on how
pag=
an
> customs got incorporated into Christianity:
>
> A-1 Noun Strong's Number: 4716 Greek: stauros
> denotes, primarily, "an upright pale or stake." On such malefactors were
> nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, "to fasten to
a
> stake or pale," are originally to be distinguished from the
ecclesiastical=
> form of a two beamed "cross." The shape of the latter had its origin in
> ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in
th=
e
> shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in
> adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the
> churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines
of=
> the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate
> ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from
> regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan
> signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with
the=
> cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the "cross" of Christ. As
fo=
r
> the Chi, or X, which Constantine declared he had seen in a vision
leading
> him to champion the Christian faith, that letter was the initial of the
wo=
rd
> "Christ" and had nothing to do with "the Cross" (for xulon, "a timber
beam=
,
> a tree," as used for the stauros, see under TREE). The method of
execution=
> was borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians. The stauros
> denotes (a) "the cross, or stake itself," e.g., Mat 27:32; (b) "the
> crucifixion suffered," e.g., 1Cr 1:17,18, where "the word of the cross,"
R=
V,
> stands for the Gospel; Gal 5:11, where crucifixion is metaphorically
used =
of
> the renunciation of the world, that characterizes the true Christian
life;=
> Gal 6:12,14; Eph 2:16; Phl 3:18. The judicial custom by which the
condemne=
d
> person carried his stake to the place of execution, was applied by the
Lor=
d
> to those sufferings by which His faithful followers were to express
their
> fellowship with Him, e.g., Mat 10:38.
>
> Terrell
Thank you for the links and the information. I am always glad to find
new things and information. I sure Christ had nothing to do with the
cross as it was for death not life. It was a form of Rome and like I
said before people like to make a lot of noise about such things, and
seem to forget that it such things does no matter as it was His death
and later His resurrecetion that it was all about. Not if it was a
pole or stake or what ever they were things used to make it come to
pass. Like someone shooting a person and they die, they are dead is
the point, not the bullet, or bomb or knife etc. Well anyway thanks.
Raymond
Founder www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
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