"Zadok" <nobler@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
news:6_JTj.744$KB3.460@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> 27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his
> angels,
> and then he will
> reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the
truth,
> some who are
> standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming
> in
> his kingdom."
>
> The key to that of course is that Jesus told his disciples that some of
> them
> would be
> alive when the second coming happened.
>
> They Wailed in Jerusalem in 70AD, when Revelation was fulfilled.
>
> Smile.
>
Not quite. As I noted, those who have not paid attention to CHRONOLOGY
don't
get this. Daniel gives the precise year and chronology of the second
coming. There are three prophecies that cross-match to the precise year
of
the second coming. But the easiest is "1335 days" which is 45 years
after
the Jews are restored to their homeland. It is only after the state of
Israel is set up, therefore, that he arrives and that didn't happen until
1947. So any any 70 CE scenario with the fall of Jerusalem then is out.
Furthermore note what Luke 21 says about the "appointed times of the
nations."
23 "Woe to the pregnant women and the ones suckling a baby in those days!
For there will be great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people;
24
and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all
the
nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, *until the
appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.*"
The "appointed times of the nations" is a specific period of time when the
nations were to trample Jerusalem while the Jews were in exile. The
"appointed times of the nations" or the so-called "gentile times" would
end
when the Jews were restored to their homeland, which occurred in 1947.
This
would end a symbolic period of 1290 days. The messiah would then arrive
to
fulfill 1335 days, which is 45 days/years later after 1947.
Another prophecy, the "7 times" prophecy depicts the kingdom of God as
represented by an earthly king on the earth as a massive tree that is cut
down and banded for "7 times", that is 2520 years from the fall of
Jerusalem. Now the pagans for political reasons revised their chronology
so
the one we have now reflects some revisions. But even so the three
potential dates for the fall of Jerusalem are within 100 years of each
other
and fall in 607 BCE (Jehovah's witnesses), 587 BCE (revised secular) or
529
BCE (strict Biblical/Anstey). Either of these three dates still place the
second coming in the 20th century in either 1914, 1934 or 1992. But since
we can determine that the second coming occurs 45 years after the "end of
the gentile times" which occurred in 1947, we know that 1992 is the only
correct date and thus 529 BCE must have been the original date for the
fall
of Jerusalem. This is now confirmed by evidence of the original dating
found
in texts which hid the original chronology in texts promoting the revised:
http://www.geocities.com/ed_maruyama/511comp2ja1.JPG
Besides the revised timeline has now been corrected. Basically, the 1st
of
Cyrus falls in 455 BCE, the last de****tation happens 70 years earlier in
525
BCE which is year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar, so year 529 BCE is year 19 and the
fall of Jerusalem. Another discussion. But anyway, it has been worked
out.
http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/709guide.html
(Correcting the
Assyrian
timeline)
So, again, while 70 CE certainly was a sad situation, the messiah does not
return until 45 years after the end of the "appointed times of the
nations"
which was to continue after the Jews were cast out of Jerusalem and sent
into exile.
As far as Jesus saying "some standing here would not die until I arrive"
he
meant just that! Some from the 1st Century would be chosen to survive
over
1900 years down to our day. The Bible indicates that John and Paul were
among those chosen to "survive" down to our day. One reason for this
necessity is to fulfill the Abrahamic Covenant which was a promise to make
Abraham's descendants a kingdom of priests. The Jews were unfaithful and
so
90% of their positions were taken away from them:
ISA 6:13 And there will still be in it a tenth, and it must again become
something for burning down, like a big tree and like a massive tree in
which, when there is a cutting down [of them], there is a stump; a holy
seed
will be the stump of it."
The STUMP is still 10% though. The "root" of 10% still has to be natural
Jews in the kingdom. This specifically would be 144,000 Jews, 12,000
from
each tribe!!! But let's face it, the Jews didn't really exist fully as
12
tribes even in Jesus' day! So how can you get 12,000 from each of the 12
tribes after the Jews go into exile and the Dias****a for 1900 years!!
It's
impossible without a miracle. So in Jesus day, there were indeed some
who
could trace their lineage back to the 12 tribes. So some who could prove
their lineage were selected from the 12 tribes to survive down to modern
times. Now in about 150-200 years a single individual could have as many
as
a million descendants. Most people can easily trace their ancestry back
200
years with genealogy records, some even father. That's only back to 1800
right? So basically these surviving members from the 1st century would
marry into the modern population, however soon they needed to to create a
new pool of Jews out of the 12 tribes of Israel from whom would be chosen
the 10% 144,000 Jews from the 12 tribes.
Now when you think about it, even if 12 bonifide members from Jesus' day
with their lineage records were chosen, that's just a small congregation
of
144 people! So 12 persons starting families 120 years ago would still
create a very large pool of selectants for each tribe. God said he would
"speed it up in its own time" and a single man would become a nation, so
perhaps these descendants would consistently produce large families so
that
there were large pools to choose from. So when Christ arrives in 1992,
12,000 would be sealed from the descendants of the "reconstituted" 12
tribes
of those who survived 1900 years to modern times.
So there is no problem between the specific chronology in the Bible of the
second coming which requires 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem to the
second coming. We can prove the original chronology now by hidden
astronomical references in at least two texts so the true date was 529
BCE,
no problem proving that now but another long discussion, obviously.
Satan's
world, which controls the world propaganda and thus the colleges and
universities supress the revisions from the Persian Period and thus
promote
this current timeline, but as I said, it has never matched the Biblical
dating anyway, so no big deal.
What many presume, though, when Christ says some standing here would not
see
death until he arrives is that Christ would arrive at a time within the
natural lifespan of those of the first century. That is a wrong
presumption. What he meant was that some would not die and keep living
over
1900 years until he arrives in 1992.
Now, Paul was one of the ones who would SURVIVE down to our day, and this
is
confirmed by 1 Thess. 4 where he was dealing with a doctrinal issue. That
is, some would be chosen to live over 1900 years until Christ returns, but
the majority, of course, would die first and need to be resurrected. So
they were asking about that. They were wondering if those resurrected
would
get their heavenly prize before those who were alive when Christ came.
Paul in explaining that all would "together" be changed, includes himself
in
the "surviving" group:
1 Thess 4:15 "For this is what we tell YOU by the Lord's word, that WE THE
LIVING who SURVIVE to the presence of the Lord shall in no way precede
those who have fallen asleep [in death]; 16 because the Lord himself will
descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel's voice and
with God's trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise
first. 17 Afterward WE THE LIVING who are SURVIVING will, together with
them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we
shall always be with [the] Lord."
See? Two distinct groups in the 1st century! Those chosen to survive and
those who would die and need to be resurrected.
This is the context of Peter's words to Jesus when he asked what he was
going to do with John. This was just after Jesus had told him how he
would
die, meaning Peter would not be in the "surviving" group. So Peter was
basically asking Jesus about John as to whether or not John would die or
survive. That is, which group was John in? So Jesus' answer was direct
to
the context of this situation after Peter had been told which group he was
in. So Jesus told him....
John 21: 21 Accordingly, when he caught sight of him, Peter said to Jesus:
"Lord, what will this [man do]?" 22 Jesus said to him: "If it is my will
for
him to REMAIN UNTIL I COME, of what concern is that to you? You continue
following me." 23 In consequence, this saying went out among the brothers,
that that disciple WOULD NOT DIE. However, Jesus did not say to him that
he
would not die, but: "If it is my will for him to remain until I come, of
what concern is that to you?"
Obviously, some who survive to the Lord's day would never die at all since
obviously they wouldn't die after Christ arrived since they would now have
to rule with him for 1000 years and then serve during Judgment Day.
By the way, in reference to the RAPTURE, Paul clearly notes that those who
died would be resurrected first. That is, back into human bodies before
the
millennium begins. They would be theoretically king-priests because after
1992 Satan would be cast out of heaven. So in that sense all experience
the RAPTURE together, because it is not until after the millennium and
after
Judgment Day that the select, Christ's Bride, experience the "rapture"
anyway. In other words, yes the crown of being with Christ in heaven,
which
is a group of 1,440,000 (10% Jews making up 144,000, 12K from each tribe)
would have to help save the rest of mankind before they go up to heaven to
sip pina coladas all day and sing Christian karaoke songs!!! Christ has
to
return to rule for 1000 years and finish the work of saving mankind and he
is assisted by his king-priests to help do this. So a lot of WORK is
involved with that glorious prize. But the Bride don't mind because they
are rather selfless people anyway who care about fellow humans. I know
they
are dying to end this earthly life and go up to a life in heaven, but not
just yet. In fact, not for over 1000 years. Christ will be down here on
the earth as well as a human and so they'd be missing him if they were up
in
heaven, so it works out.
In Summary: The second coming year is specific in scripture and can be
calculated various ways. The year for the fall of Jerusalem is "clouded"
by
revisionism issues, so the most direct way is just add 45 years to 1947,
the
year the official exile and trampling of the Jews ends, the "end of the
gentile times." That gives us 1992. Thus some in Jesus day who would
"survive" until he arrives would have to stay alive from the 1st century
until 1992. Part of the reason for this is because descendants of the 12
tribes of Israel need to make up 12,000 each tribe of 10% of the Bride
Class, which is impossible for the nation as a whole over those years who
would be in exile. But since you only need one person of each tribe maybe
over 120-200 years to create enough descendants for a reasonable selection
of 12,000, the technical fulfillment for the natural Jews could be met.
There were some in Jesus' day who did maintain their ancestry so this
could
be accomplished with as few as one member from each tribe, but even 12
members from each tribe is still a small group of less than 200 people who
need to survive down to our day to accomplish God's words. All of this
would be top secret though. Even though the Knights Templar claim to be
looking for the "holy grail" in the children of Mary Magdalene which they
substitute for John. My opinion is that they found out somehow that John
and others were surviving and that's who they are really looking for.
They
are actually looking for John and the other "royal line" of the Jews from
Jesus' time along with their massive genealogy records. Jesus certainly
did
not marry any Mary Magdalene. The "chalice" is thus John himself who
survives and not Mary Magdalene.
The second-coming messiah, who is an ordinary man selected to be used by
Christ so he can manifest himself in the flesh again, since he cannot use
his perfect body any more having given it up forever as a sacrifice, will
come through the line of Joseph, that is, be a descendant of one from the
tribe of Josephus from the 1st century who survives down to our day.
Now I know this sounds sci-fi and everything, but let's face it. If
you're
a Christian and believe the Bible you know Christ can raise people from
the
dead. So if he can raise someone from the dead, he certainly can keep
them
alive if he wants. So you either believe the Bible or you don't. We
must
not superimpose our own ideas of how difficult it would be to live 1900
years. After all, are we all not wanting to live FOREVER? Isn't death a
very painful thing? It wouldn't be boring because they would need to
obviously travel from place to place because after a while their neighbors
would see they weren't aging after 100 years and get suspicious. So the
world is a big place, plus they had plenty of money, obviously, and
probably
along the way, monitoring various things, like the production of the
Bible,
etc.
Anyway, that's what HAS happened and all is well. It's been several years
since 1992 so all the 12,000 from the descendants from those from the 1st
century have been chosen by now.
Lars
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