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Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture

by Adam <contactbruderhof@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Dec 3, 2005 at 08:18 AM

As I heard from one of the first elders, who in turn heard it from those 
who had still seen the apostles and had been their pupils, the only 
punishment which came into question for the ancients who sinned 
unknowingly was the punishment due to them according to the Scriptures.

So it was with David. He pleased God when, unjustly persecuted by Saul 
and having to flee from him, he did not take revenge on his enemy; when 
he sang psalms about the advent of the Messiah; when he taught wisdom to 
the nations and did everything according to the counsel of the Spirit. 
But when lust overcame him and he took Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah, the 
Scripture said about him, "The thing which David did was wicked in the 
eyes of the Lord." And the prophet Nathan was sent to him to show him his 
sin. Thus he had to pass sentence upon himself and condemn himself so 
that he could obtain mercy and forgiveness from Christ.

It was similar with Solomon. He pleased God as long as he continued to 
judge rightly and to speak wisdom; as long as he built the true type 
foreshadowing the temple and proclaimed the glory of God; as long as he 
announced the peace to come upon the nations and pictured the kingdom of 
the Messiah beforehand; and as long as he spoke his three thousand 
parables about the expected arrival of the Messiah. But when he took 
wives from all the heathen nations and allowed them to set up idols, the 
Scripture condemned him very strongly in order that no person might 
glorify himself in the sight of God. That is what this elder said.

Therefore the Lord descended into the kingdom of the underworld to speak 
there also, proclaiming his advent, for now there was forgiveness of sin 
for those who had believed in him. All those believed in him who had put 
their hope in him, all those who had proclaimed his advent beforehand and 
had served his plan: the righteous men, the prophets, and the patriarchs, 
whose sins he forgave in a befitting way as he forgave ours. Nor should 
we lay these sins to their charge unless we want to despise the grace of 
God. Just as these men did not charge us with our lack of self-restraint, 
which we were guilty of before the Messiah was revealed to us, so neither 
is it for us to blame those who sinned before the Messiah came. "For all 
men fall short of the glory of God." They are not made righteous of 
themselves but only through the coming of the Lord, if they earnestly 
seek his light. Their deeds were recorded for our discipline, that we 
should recognize two things: first of all, that we and they have one and 
the same God, whom sins do not please even when committed by eminent 
people; and secondly, that we should refrain from evil. Thus this elder 
tells us that we must not be arrogant; neither should we condemn the 
ancients. Rather, now that we have recognized the Messiah, we should take 
care not to do anything that does not please God. Otherwise we would have 
no forgiveness of sins anymore and would be excluded from his 
kingdom...Then as now, the punishment of God’s justice remains the same: 
then it was foreshadowing, temporal, and less severe; now it is real, 
eternal, and final.

Hence the elders declare those men very foolish who, from the experiences 
of those who disobeyed God in ancient times, want to conclude that there 
is a second God. In contrast, the first elders pointed out to these men 
what God in his compassionate love has done for the salvation of those 
who received him when he appeared.

"Traditions of the Elders" in Irenaeus, Aganist Heresies IV.27, 28.

Mary wrote:

> What we cannot know of ourselves, we have learned through the
> prophets. They firmly believed that the spirit, the heavenly armor of
> our mortality, shall gain immortality together with the soul. Thus,
> far in advance of their time, they spoke out things that other souls
> had not yet recognized. 
> 
> Everyone can recognize this in detail if he does not in puffed-up
> conceit reject the most holy revelations, which have been written down
> in the course of time. Through them everyone who has an open ear is
> made a friend of God.
> 
> Tatian, Address to the Greeks 20.6; 12.6.
> 
> Bruderhof Communities wrote:
> 
>> Therefore the resurrection of bodies which are without souls or even 
>> entirely disintegrated must most certainly take place. The same
>> people must reappear in the twofold nature of their being.
>> 
>> Late Athenagoras, On the Resurrection of the Dead 25.
>> 
>>> The salvation of the soul would be the final goal of only a part of
>>> the human, not of the whole. In order that the final goal can be
>>> realized, the body must be united with the soul, which is possible
>>> only through resurrection.
>>> 
>>> Athenagoras, On the Resurrection of the Dead 24-25 (summary). 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
>




 64 Posts in Topic:
The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof Communities <  2005-11-28 09:13:29 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Jim <contact@[EMAIL PR  2005-11-28 09:14:34 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Megan R." <  2005-11-28 09:15:53 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-29 09:21:44 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Carole <carolev@[EMAIL  2005-11-29 09:25:39 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Jim <contact@[EMAIL PR  2005-11-29 09:29:41 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Megan R." <  2005-11-29 09:30:38 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Greasy <contact@[EMAIL  2005-11-29 13:07:27 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Joe Hine <joehine@[EMA  2005-11-30 08:08:43 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Megan R." <  2005-11-30 08:09:12 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Jim <contact@[EMAIL PR  2005-11-30 08:10:27 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-30 08:12:52 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-29 09:29:12 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-29 13:12:23 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Mary <help@[EMAIL PROT  2005-11-29 13:13:01 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-29 13:23:28 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Greg G." <i  2005-11-29 13:23:49 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Adam <contactbruderhof  2005-11-29 13:25:05 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Megan R." <  2005-11-29 13:29:23 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-29 13:37:24 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Megan R." <  2005-11-29 13:38:17 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Greg G." <i  2005-11-29 13:43:50 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Mary <help@[EMAIL PROT  2005-11-29 13:52:00 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-29 20:44:28 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Megan R." <  2005-11-29 20:45:05 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-29 20:45:26 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Greg G." <i  2005-11-29 20:45:49 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-29 20:46:11 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof Communities <  2005-11-29 20:47:55 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Megan R." <  2005-11-29 20:48:24 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-29 20:48:39 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Werner <ploughuk@[EMAI  2005-11-29 20:49:11 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-30 07:55:12 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Greasy <contact@[EMAIL  2005-11-30 07:56:06 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Jim <contact@[EMAIL PR  2005-11-30 07:56:24 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-11-30 07:58:12 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Greg G." <i  2005-11-30 08:00:15 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
G Banks <ploughuk@[EMA  2005-11-30 08:01:38 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Greg G." <i  2005-11-30 08:02:08 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Megan R." <  2005-12-03 08:15:44 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
G Banks <ploughuk@[EMA  2005-12-03 08:16:08 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof Communities <  2005-12-03 08:16:25 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Mary <help@[EMAIL PROT  2005-12-03 08:17:21 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Adam <contactbruderhof  2005-12-03 08:18:24 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Greasy <contact@[EMAIL  2005-12-03 08:17:52 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Joe Hine <joehine@[EMA  2005-12-03 08:22:18 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof News <news1@  2005-12-03 08:22:46 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Megan R." <  2005-12-03 08:26:14 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof Communities <  2005-12-03 08:36:22 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Greg G." <i  2005-12-03 08:36:40 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Megan R." <  2005-12-03 09:52:44 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Greasy <contact@[EMAIL  2005-12-03 10:05:02 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Mary <help@[EMAIL PROT  2005-12-03 10:16:13 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof Communities <  2005-12-03 10:25:32 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Greg G." <i  2005-12-03 10:25:53 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof Communities <  2005-12-05 08:41:42 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Greasy <contact@[EMAIL  2005-12-05 08:43:24 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Jim <contact@[EMAIL PR  2005-12-05 08:43:48 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Megan R." <  2005-12-05 09:17:19 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof <contact@[EM  2005-12-05 09:17:43 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof News <news1@  2005-12-05 09:17:58 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
"Greg G." <i  2005-12-05 09:18:21 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Bruderhof Communities <  2005-12-03 10:25:11 
Re: The Early Christians: Creed, Confession and Scripture
Werner <ploughuk@[EMAI  2005-12-03 08:16:53 

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